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Old April 24th, 2010, 10:22 PM   #1
Scottes
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Default Some Tests Of Elemental Revolvers

I wanted to do some tests on elemental revolvers. Ampersand was kind enough to make me a batch of revolvers. Many thanks, ampersand, they worked frickin' perfectly.


I tested these 4 revolvers:



I enabled debug Mode so I could check some stats.

I fired them at a blank wall until they proc'd 20 times, counting the number of shots between each proc.

Then I recorded a movie with Fraps, fired 20 times, then watched the Fraps movie in slow-motion to check the size of each proc - whether it was an x1 proc, x2, x3 or an x4 proc - judging from the size of the fireballs.

As a note, I do not consider 20 procs or 20 shots to be a definitive test - not considering the randomness of Borderlands. But I felt that it was enough to be informational, and 1,000 shots was insane.

EDIT: I forgot an important detail. Every single shot was fired when the tech pool was at it's maximum. So I waited after every x2+ proc, until the pool was full. I did not wait very long after an x1 proc.


Some Weapon Stats

The x1 revolver has a Pool_Tech of 32 from a Tech Level of 8.
The x2 revolver has a Pool_Tech of 44 from a Tech Level of 11.
The x3 revolver has a Pool_Tech of 56 from a Tech Level of 14.
The x4 revolver has a Pool_Tech of 60 from a Tech Level of 15.

The ActiveRegenRate was 4.000 at all times.

Every proc drained the Tech Pool by 20.

(But by this definition, the x1 revolver never proc'd - it just did what I'd like to call "base incendiary damage" but we can call "an x1 proc" to keep the conversation consistent. Note that every bullet fired by a revolver will be at least an x1 proc.)


Shots Between Procs

I wanted to test the Elemental Effect Chance, something that has been bothering me because I couldn't really nail it down. So I fired each revolver until it proc'd 20 times, counting the number of shots between each proc.

To be clear, I ignored x1 procs - and thus the x1 revolver completely from this test - and counted the number of shots between procs of x2 or higher.

Each run is listed as a string of numbers below each revolver. Each number lists the number of shots required to proc. So "121" show 4 shots - the first shot proc'd, then a blank, then a proc, then a proc. Is that clear as mud?


The x2 revolver - High Elemental Chance - took 53 shots to proc x2 a total of 20 times.
This is 2.65 rounds between procs.
The longest run of non-proc'ing was 8 shots - ie; 8 x1 procs in a row.
Run: 11311231229341113257

The x3 - Higher Elemental Chance - revolver took 37 shots to proc x2 or x3 a total of 20 times.
This is 1.85 rounds between procs.
The longest run of non-proc'ing was 7 shots - ie; 7 x1 procs in a row.
Run: 18121311131222211211

The x4 - Very High Elemental Chance - revolver took 34 shots to proc x2 or x3 or x4 a total of 20 times.
This is 1.7 rounds between procs.
The longest run of non-proc'ing was 4 shots - ie; 4 x1 procs in a row.
Run: 12222112212313111122


I found it interesting that there seemed to be little difference between the Higher and the Very High revolvers - but the difference is more apparent after the next test.


Proc Sizes

There are 4 levels of proc possible, judging by the fireball size. The pic below shows the difference between x1, x2, x3 and x4. I cut these frames out of the Fraps movie of the x4 revolver and cropped them down to a reasonable size.



All 4 can be done by the x4 revolver - the others can only do up to their x-rating. That is, the x3 revolver can do x1, x2, and x3 procs.


These sizes were pretty damned consistent between all revolvers. So I can say without a doubt that there are 4 different proc sizes possible. (Although an x1 proc is not really a proc since it does not drain the tech pool...) So let's just say that I noticed 4 different fireball sizes in my tests. So there are 4 different elemental effect strengths possible. I'm going to call these "x1 procs" through "x4 procs" for consistency, somewhat ignoring technical accuracy.


Well, there are 4 strengths when it comes to incendiary revolvers. I may test snipers and/or repeaters one of these days... And I'd love to determine how to test explosive... And I've love to test these against a big non-aggressive target so I can get accurate DoT... We'll see how much time I can spend on this stuff - all this has taken me almost 5 hours so far.


Total Proc Sizes

I fired 20 shots from each revolver except the x1, recorded this in Fraps, then slow-played it using VirtualDub so I could count up the size of each proc.

The runs are listed below each paragraph, with each number listing the size of the proc. So "121" is 3 shots - an x1 proc followed by an x2 proc followed by an x1 proc.


The x2 revolver shot 11 x1 procs and 9 x2 procs. This gives a total "proc strength" of 29, or an average of x1.45 per shot.
Run: 11222221112111222111

The x3 revolver shot 8 x1 procs, 7 x2 procs, and 5 x3 procs. This gives a total "proc strength" of 37, or an average of x1.85 per shot.
Run: 12213231312221331112

The x4 revolver shot 5 x1 procs, 8 x2 procs, 5 x3 procs, and 2 x4 procs. This gives a total "proc strength" of 44, or an average of x2.2 per shot.
Run: 23123312121243432212


Conclusions

Bah. I'm not sure what to "conclude" from all this. I find it interesting as hell, but I don't find any firm conclusions. This is Borderlands, and its randomness is so pervasive that it seems to defy any laws or logic.

But it is interesting. And I'll probably try doing this with Repeaters soon. Revolvers and their "proc-every-shot" habits take a little excitement out of this.


Anyone want to make me a map containing a bunch of non-moving BadAss Bandits so I can test DoT?
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Last edited by Scottes; April 24th, 2010 at 10:51 PM.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 10:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Some Tests Of Elemental Revolvers

Revolvers are one of the few gun types with such a large range of elemental bullets they can fire. This is what you noticed; for instance, there are FOUR distinct incendiary bullets that a revolver can fire. One is assigned to each level. And you are correct in saying that elemental revolvers ALWAYS proc--revolvers and snipers are the only guns where their BASE bullet causes elemental damage. Most base elemental bullets are just renamed normal bullets in the game files. Procing in this game isn't a chance for a bullet to CAUSE elemental damage, but rather the chance to FIRE an elemental bullet.

I have all the accessories, their proc chances, tech costs, and most importantly, the type of bullet they fire in my program if you select an elemental accessory and/or click the label "accessory" afterwards.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 10:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Some Tests Of Elemental Revolvers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottes View Post
Bah. I'm not sure what to "conclude" from all this.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 10:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: Some Tests Of Elemental Revolvers

For instance, here are the differences between the four different incendiary revolver bullets for x1-x4:

Incendiary Bullet 1: incendiary dmg x1, blast radius of 60
Incendiary Bullet 2: incendiary dmg x1, blast radius of 112
Incendiary Bullet 3: incendiary dmg x1.5, blast radius of 200
Incendiary Bullet 4: incendiary dmg x2, blast radius of 360

Basically each next bullet causes splash damage in a area about 3 times larger than the previous bullet.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 10:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: Some Tests Of Elemental Revolvers

I forgot an important detail. Every single shot was fired when the tech pool was at it's maximum. So I waited after every x2+ proc, until the pool was full. I did not wait very long after an x1 proc.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 10:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: Some Tests Of Elemental Revolvers

Good info duncanfogg, as usual. I still haven't had time to check out your program thoroughly, but I most certainly will.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 11:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: Some Tests Of Elemental Revolvers

Interesting stuff, thanks for the info!
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Old April 25th, 2010, 01:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: Some Tests Of Elemental Revolvers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottes View Post
I wanted to do some tests on elemental revolvers. Ampersand was kind enough to make me a batch of revolvers. Many thanks, ampersand, they worked frickin' perfectly.
Very interesting read, man. Glad I was able to help a little.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottes View Post
The x2 revolver shot 11 x1 procs and 9 x2 procs. This gives a total "proc strength" of 29, or an average of x1.45 per shot.
Run: 11222221112111222111

The x3 revolver shot 8 x1 procs, 7 x2 procs, and 5 x3 procs. This gives a total "proc strength" of 37, or an average of x1.85 per shot.
Run: 12213231312221331112

The x4 revolver shot 5 x1 procs, 8 x2 procs, 5 x3 procs, and 2 x4 procs. This gives a total "proc strength" of 44, or an average of x2.2 per shot.
Run: 23123312121243432212
This was my favorite part. Like you said, 20 procs isn't exactly definitive, but it's nice to see some numbers; especially such consistent ones.

I also found it pretty interesting (I've been drinking tonight, bear with me.) that the number of x2 procs or above for these three guns increased by increments of 3 each time (9, 7+5, and 8+5+2). I know it's probably not that consistent most of the time, but pretty damn interesting regardless.

Great thread. If you do any more tests like this, and need some more test guns made up, I'd be happy to throw em together for ya. I love reading stuff like this, and I'm glad that there's people like you on these forums willing to put the work in.
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Old April 25th, 2010, 08:40 AM   #9
Scottes
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Default Re: Some Tests Of Elemental Revolvers

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampersand View Post
If you do any more tests like this, and need some more test guns made up, I'd be happy to throw em together for ya.
Well if you want to do the same thing with some repeaters, I think that would be interesting to check. They're so different from revolvers, and they fire slow enough to inspect. I don't think I could do all of these tests with an SMG and a 12.5 RoF. Thanks again!
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Old April 25th, 2010, 02:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Some Tests Of Elemental Revolvers

Wow. This was, quite frankly, an awesome read. It's cool that people like you are willing to do this kind of awesome stuff. Thanks for explaining why some of my shots would insta-kill, and others would do minimal damage.
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