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View Poll Results: Old loot system or new one?
Old 99 58.93%
New 69 41.07%
Voters: 168. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 14th, 2012, 09:57 AM   #71
OddmanUG
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Default Re: Borderlands 2 Multiplayer Loot System

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Originally Posted by Porshapwr View Post
I certainly don't mean any offense Oddman, but have you actually PLAYED a game with individual loot? Because everything I've seen you assume about it has been generally wrong.

As an example, loot from the vendor would not be affected. You could still buy the same stuff (just as other games with individual loot have done). The only loot that is individual is from enemies or chests/lockers/etc.....

And EVEN IF your example was valid, you could still just give them the gold to buy it just as if you were trading. ????



I've found this overwhelmingly true of those opposed to individual loot on this forum. They are against it, but they don't truly have any experience with it. Why is everyone so close minded? You should always fully understand and try something before developing an opinion on it.

I can say for a fact that prior to playing the new games with individual loot I probably would have been against it. But now that I've experienced it, it's LEAGUES better than shared loot.
I'm going off of Borderlands 1, where vendor loot was shared, and Cash was not "transferable". If someone is crying for instanced loot, I'd assume they are crying for instanced vendor loot as well. Otherwise, what do you do when you see a epic gun in the vendor and a teammate buys it under your nose? Isn't that the same thing as shared chest loot or shared boss drops?

I like the shared loot in Borderlands, and I have reason to. For one, I know the loot being used is legit, and obtained in the game. Secondly, we're looking at the same thing when we find something epic. There'd be 4 of us standing there just looking at an awesome gun, maybe taking pics even. Pre-agreeing on loot divvy guidelines also creates the perfect situation to discuss team roles and build's as well. All the people I play with play solo as well. When we get together, we have loot to brag about for sure. But that "found as a team" moment is not there, and that is an experience worth having to share loot for.

Games are an extension of life. The people you play with, are real people. I really don't understand why it's so hard to work things out and enjoy it. If I go out to the pub and order a tray of beersnacks, I want my mates and new friends I made there to pick at it too. I'm not gonna say, I ordered this so you go order your own tray. I'm not gonna go to KFC with friends and say, "No if we order a barrel, I might not get the biggest juiciest piece, so I'm ordering my own drumstick". If a friend comes over to the house, he's welcome to a beer from my fridge. Maybe I'm weird, but that's how I am.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 09:58 AM   #72
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Default Re: Borderlands 2 Multiplayer Loot System

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Originally Posted by Gionascm2 View Post
The poll results are biased because most of the people on this forum play Borderlands with eachother as a community or trustworthy friends, but they aren't aware that some people such as you and me play online with random people.
I play in random lobbies, and I absolutely do not want instanced loot.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:09 AM   #73
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Default Re: Borderlands 2 Multiplayer Loot System

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Originally Posted by TheSilencedScream View Post
Or... you could make friends on a forum (let's say, this one).
Now you don't have to worry about some random person - who has no reason to care about you, about you having fun, or about what is "fair" - and will have more fun with someone who you can play with time and time again. This person will be more than likely someone who will discuss with you what guns they're looking for and will almost always be more willing to share loot than run up and hoard it all for themselves.

You'll also have someone to play through quests and the storyline with consecutively (as opposed to a "one night stand" type gameplay), and someone who may play other games that you enjoy playing.


I'm not fully against instanced loot; I just don't see what the issue is when there are clear and obvious ways around having to deal with absolute randoms.
The problem is levelling -- I can probaly find someone on here to play through the entirety of Borderlands 2 with, but we'll each have different scheduels which will ultimately result in a distant level range when we play next. So eventually, he'll be a higher level and it won't be fun with him destroying everything, or I'll be too high of a level and he'll keep dying.

Because of this very reason, I find randoms more effective to play with because people that join you are usually, for the most part, within a reasonable level range of you. But then they take all the loot that I deserve. So as you can see, its a very tough situation... The only way would be to pick a group/partner, and only play borderlands 2 with eachother until you beat the game. And that sucks when one player is busy and the other is just there, bored.

How exactly do you plan on battling these obstacles?




@Anesky: Enlighten me. Because you are either the luckiest Borderlands player ever and nobody takes your loot that you deserve, or you just don't care about guns in general and only care about your teammates and completely disregard yourself. Which one are you?

Last edited by Gionascm2; September 14th, 2012 at 10:11 AM.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:19 AM   #74
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Default Re: Borderlands 2 Multiplayer Loot System

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Originally Posted by Gionascm2 View Post
The problem is leveling
Convince someone around you to give the game a try, or make a really good friend online. I kind of did both. Met my current girlfriend over another online game, ended up gaming buddies, ended up in a relationship, then ended up convincing her to play Borderlands. She's solo'ing craw as I type, while my PS3 isn't even turned on. lol...

I sometimes kind of think the reason some players want instanced loot so much, and can't find the right play partners is the "me first, loot first" attitude. Think in reverse, care less about the loot and care more about the fun and friends, then you end up with friends that won't mind sharing the loot. idk, just a thought.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:20 AM   #75
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Default Re: Borderlands 2 Multiplayer Loot System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gionascm2 View Post
The problem is levelling -- I can probaly find someone on here to play through the entirety of Borderlands 2 with, but we'll each have different scheduels which will ultimately result in a distant level range when we play next. So eventually, he'll be a higher level and it won't be fun with him destroying everything, or I'll be too high of a level and he'll keep dying.

Because of this very reason, I find randoms more effective to play with because people that join you are usually, for the most part, within a reasonable level range of you. But then they take all the loot that I deserve. So as you can see, its a very tough situation... The only way would be to pick a group/partner, and only play borderlands 2 with eachother until you beat the game. And that sucks when one player is busy and the other is just there, bored.

How exactly do you plan on battling these obstacles?
Run faster to the loot.

But honestly, leveling up is quick; and since a lower level will level up more quickly than a higher level (they require less experience to level up and gain more experience for kills), it'll balance out fairly quickly.

It's not a perfect system, but I still don't feel it to be a major issue.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:38 AM   #76
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Default Re: Borderlands 2 Multiplayer Loot System

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Originally Posted by Gionascm2 View Post
Because of this very reason, I find randoms more effective to play with because people that join you are usually, for the most part, within a reasonable level range of you. But then they take all the loot that I deserve. So as you can see, its a very tough situation... The only way would be to pick a group/partner, and only play borderlands 2 with eachother until you beat the game. And that sucks when one player is busy and the other is just there, bored.
Firstly, millions of people play BL. I find it difficult to beleive out of millions of people you can't find someone your level. Secondly, you've based that on the assumption that all players are going to steal your loot. Which is just plain not true.

Quote:
@Anesky: Enlighten me. Because you are either the luckiest Borderlands player ever and nobody takes your loot that you deserve, or you just don't care about guns in general and only care about your teammates and completely disregard yourself. Which one are you?
For the same reason as above. It's innaccurate to suggest that everyone in public matches steals loot or is going to be a terrible player in some way that makes it a pain to play online. I'm fully aware it happens and if you're unlucky it can happen more frequently, maybe you had bad experiences or something, I can understand that, but out of the many, players, it's really not difficult to find players who are the right level and who will play fairly.

I have hundreds of hours in BL and from day one all of my online matches were public lobbies and I've never seen this as a problem.

I sympathise with anyone whos had bad experiences online, but it's greatly exagerated and alot of it, really, comes down to preference. And in my personal opinion, from much experience with random lobbies, I think that the benefits of shared loot greatly outweight the problems.


Edit: Also I'm fairly certain they've fixed the level thing? I'm not sure on the details but I think anyone can join anyone elses match without worrying about level this time around. Someone else will probably know more about that.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:42 AM   #77
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Default Re: Borderlands 2 Multiplayer Loot System

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Originally Posted by TheSilencedScream View Post
Or... you could make friends on a forum (let's say, this one).
Now you don't have to worry about some random person - who has no reason to care about you, about you having fun, or about what is "fair" - and will have more fun with someone who you can play with time and time again. This person will be more than likely someone who will discuss with you what guns they're looking for and will almost always be more willing to share loot than run up and hoard it all for themselves.

You'll also have someone to play through quests and the storyline with consecutively (as opposed to a "one night stand" type gameplay), and someone who may play other games that you enjoy playing.


I'm not fully against instanced loot; I just don't see what the issue is when there are clear and obvious ways around having to deal with absolute randoms.
Maybe sometimes you want to play with new people and strangers for the sake of it, or jump in a quick game and shoot things, or maybe you want to pick every kind of guns to complete on of your character build, and you want that extra option to feel safe.

At any rate public games might be more often that not the easiest solution to have a little fun in multiplayer for a lot of us. Having the option to have loot instanced would nail an other level of polish, bring a lot of minds to rest (thoses who hate to compete against each others etc) and probably bring a lot more people to play online, making the game even more successful. And if you do not like Instanced loot there would still be the FFA option available: everyone is happy!
I don't get why people would be against that.

Last edited by Aruken; September 14th, 2012 at 10:44 AM.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:44 AM   #78
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Default Re: Borderlands 2 Multiplayer Loot System

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Originally Posted by OddmanUG View Post
Convince someone around you to give the game a try, or make a really good friend online. I kind of did both. Met my current girlfriend over another online game, ended up gaming buddies, ended up in a relationship, then ended up convincing her to play Borderlands. She's solo'ing craw as I type, while my PS3 isn't even turned on. lol...

I sometimes kind of think the reason some players want instanced loot so much, and can't find the right play partners is the "me first, loot first" attitude. Think in reverse, care less about the loot and care more about the fun and friends, then you end up with friends that won't mind sharing the loot. idk, just a thought.
That's pretty cool that you met your GF online, and even cooler that she plays with you. To the point, I don't actually tend to play games online with my friends a lot, idk I just tend to go solo... Maybe with BL2 I'll play much more with my IRL friends, and see how that works out. And yes I do have fun with the people I play online with; its always a constant stream of adraneline-pumping excitement. But that excitement turns into anger when we're all having a blast killing Krom in my game, and when he's dead somebody just takes his Sidearm.

Now I don't quite know how the instanced loot system works as I've never played Diablo, but it sounds a lot better than this current system. Imagine a Pandora where you kill the final boss, and then instead of rushing around trying to pick up Orange guns ASAP, you can take your time and examine the stats without worry of some douche stealing the gun.

Maybe I AM a little selfish when it comes to getting the best equipment... With any luck, Borderlands 2 can make me focus more on having fun instead of worrying about the best stuff. Here's hoping.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilencedScream View Post
Run faster to the loot.

But honestly, leveling up is quick; and since a lower level will level up more quickly than a higher level (they require less experience to level up and gain more experience for kills), it'll balance out fairly quickly.

It's not a perfect system, but I still don't feel it to be a major issue.
Aha ain't that the truth! I remember when I was fighting Sledge with 3 other randoms, I was worried that they would take Sledges Shotgun, so the whole battle I remained ****-distance from him, ready to pick up his shotgun when he passes away. Simply put, I went down and died due to nobody reviving me, and somebody ended up taking Sledges Shotgun. Oh the irony.


You're definately right on the "not a perfect system" part, and I can imagine how hard it must be to solve this problem; I guess their system works fine, but its just so hard to play with players in your level range. Whatever, let's just hope for the best in BL2.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Anesky View Post
Firstly, millions of people play BL. I find it difficult to beleive out of millions of people you can't find someone your level. Secondly, you've based that on the assumption that all players are going to steal your loot. Which is just plain not true.



For the same reason as above. It's innaccurate to suggest that everyone in public matches steals loot or is going to be a terrible player in some way that makes it a pain to play online. I'm fully aware it happens and if you're unlucky it can happen more frequently, maybe you had bad experiences or something, I can understand that, but out of the many, players, it's really not difficult to find players who are the right level and who will play fairly.

I have hundreds of hours in BL and from day one all of my online matches were public lobbies and I've never seen this as a problem.

I sympathise with anyone whos had bad experiences online, but it's greatly exagerated and alot of it, really, comes down to preference. And in my personal opinion, from much experience with random lobbies, I think that the benefits of shared loot greatly outweight the problems.


Edit: Also I'm fairly certain they've fixed the level thing? I'm not sure on the details but I think anyone can join anyone elses match without worrying about level this time around. Someone else will probably know more about that.
I wasn't basing my assumption that all players steal loot, but its the risk that made it not worth it. You're right about preference, though -- In BL1 I preferred to play Solo during bosses so that I know nobody will take the once-in-a-playthrough loot. Yes, I've had a bunch of bad online experiences in BL1, and that's perhaps made me a little biased towards the online community as a whole, which is why I completely agree with what Aruken said about having an option for loot to be instanced.

Last edited by Gionascm2; September 14th, 2012 at 10:56 AM.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:52 AM   #79
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Default Re: Borderlands 2 Multiplayer Loot System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruken View Post
Maybe sometimes you want to play with new people and strangers for the sake of it, or jump in a quick game and shoot things, or maybe you want to pick every kind of guns to complete on of your character build, and you want that extra option to feel safe.

At any rate public games might be more often that not the easiest solution to have a little fun in multiplayer for a lot of us. Having the option to have loot instanced would nail an other level of polish, bring a lot of minds to rest (thoses who hate to compete against each others etc) and probably bring a lot more people to play online, making the game even more successful. And if you do not like Instanced loot there would still be the FFA option available: everyone is happy!
I don't get why people would be against that.
I'm not fully against it. I'm truly not. I just don't see it being a big issue, given the number of ways around it.

If you're just on for a minute to kill things, chances are - if loot is instanced - you're not going to get much, if anything.

It's likely difficult to instance loot properly, anyway, since they've now made the areas larger. If I'm wandering around the north side of an area and you're on the south side (because we're randoms and I don't know you or care about following you around), and I open a locker than contains a gun instanced to you... what then? If I don't tell you, that's gear you don't get. If I say something and then continue moving on to look for my own gear, you're going to be hunting around trying to find the thing while everyone else is ready to go on.


Also, I'd love to know just how many people play this offline solely because of not having instanced loot. I doubt it's even a full 1% of the players...


Honestly, unless it's a legendary, I see no issue. If someone gets something you wanted, you'll still eventually find something better. Isn't that the goal of looting, after all - looking for the next best (damage, visual, etc.) thing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gionascm2 View Post
Aha ain't that the truth! I remember when I was fighting Sledge with 3 other randoms, I was worried that they would take Sledges Shotgun, so the whole battle I remained ****-distance from him, ready to pick up his shotgun when he passes away. Simply put, I went down and died due to nobody reviving me, and somebody ended up taking Sledges Shotgun. Oh the irony.


You're definately right on the "not a perfect system" part, and I can imagine how hard it must be to solve this problem; I guess their system works fine, but its just so hard to play with players in your level range. Whatever, let's just hope for the best in BL2.
Off-topic for a moment: Thank you.
We are able to see eye-to-eye and disagree without it sloping off into insults.
THAT is what I want from forums.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 11:38 AM   #80
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Default Re: Borderlands 2 Multiplayer Loot System

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Originally Posted by Gionascm2 View Post
I wasn't basing my assumption that all players steal loot, but its the risk that made it not worth it. You're right about preference, though -- In BL1 I preferred to play Solo during bosses so that I know nobody will take the once-in-a-playthrough loot. Yes, I've had a bunch of bad online experiences in BL1, and that's perhaps made me a little biased towards the online community as a whole, which is why I completely agree with what Aruken said about having an option for loot to be instanced.
Yeah I get that. And I can't argue that having an option wouldn't suit everyone, and I definitely wouldn't complain if it was implemented. What I don't like is the notion that when you don't like something you can just complain about it and the developers are supposed to pay attention, and then have options put in for every little thing. That's just not reality, you can't satisfy everyone and you can't have an option for everything. You have to draw a line somewhere.
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