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Old October 10th, 2013, 06:25 AM   #1
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Default The infuriating '1-DoT bug' - Explanation, Testing and Thoughts

The infuriating '1-DoT bug'

[Soooo, time for another potentially informative thread about stuff. This time we’re going to be looking at the well-circulated, yet little elaborated-on ‘1-damage DoT bug’. I’d actually been planning on making this thread for a good while, but never got round to it. Apathy and lack of motivation aside though, I feel fairly well-equipped to finally get round to this thread. Most of the testing in the later sections of this thread was conducted at level 61, prior to the 2nd UVHM level cap upgrade. Also, throughout this thread, the terms ‘1-DoT’ and ‘1-damage DoT’ will be used fairly interchangeably – apologies for lack of consistency with a single term, but editing it appropriately would be considerable effort. Anyhow, let’s get right into this.]

What is commonly known about ‘1-damage DoT’?

So, I imagine most of you reading this thread have witnessed this phenomenon at one point or another during your gameplay experience, but if not, it is basically as it sounds. In place of standard elemental effect damage numbers, which, in UVHM, typically range in the thousands of damage (default weapon Elemental Effect Damage at level 61 is listed at 13831.7), damage ticks of 1 will be seen above an enemy instead, in addition to the visual effects associated with elemental effect status (burn, electrocute, corrode). Man, I made that sound unnecessarily complicated. Anyhow, picture, 1000 words and whatnot, behold:

Now, many will know of this phenomenon either via the HellFire or non-Bandit Plasma Casters. This is because the HellFire and Plasma Casters possess an additional 50% splash damage, a splash which has a small chance to proc an elemental effect dealing 1-damage-per-tick.This small percentage chance to proc a ‘1-damage DoT’ is independent of the elemental effect chance listed on the weapon card. To clarify, each shot from a HellFire of Plasma Caster constitutes of two separate proc chance instances: one from the main projectile (which has the regular listed elemental effect damage and chance) and one from the splash (whose elemental effect damage is always 1-damage-ticks). However, there is still much to explore regarding the ‘1-damage DoT’. What other weapons suffer from the ‘1-damage DoT bug’? What is the actual percentage chance to proc the ‘1-damage DoT’? Is this actually a bug or is this a check set in place to prevent these weapons from dealing excessive elemental effect damage? Well, let’s find out!

What other weapons have caught the ‘bug’?

As evidenced by the above screenshot, the HellFire and Plasma Casters are not the only weapons capable of inflicting ‘1-damage DoTs’ – the Volcano is another example of such a weapon. Furthermore, a large number of other elemental weapons with additional splash damage also can trigger a ‘1-damage DoT’. Like the HellFire and Plasma Casters, only the splash of these weapons is capable of ‘1-DoTing’ (that’s a verb now) – the main projectiles will proc the listed elemental effect damage. Following the good Bahroo’s Splash Damage weapon list (, I tested each elemental, non-slag, non-explosive weapon (given that slag and explosive weapons cannot inflict DoTs) extensively to determine which of these weapons ‘1-DoT’.

This is what I make to be the exhaustive list of the ‘1-DoTers’ (please feel free to comment below if you believe I am missing a few):

Non-Bandit Plasma Casters
Teeth of Terramorphous
Yellow Jacket

Now, what exactly is meant by saying that the above ‘suffer from the 1-damage DoT bug’? Firstly, I feel it might be worth elaborating on why weapons with ‘complete elemental splash’ (that is to say, not afflicted by ‘1-DoTs’) are so powerful, with respect to DoT application. Basically, the other elemental splash weapons listed on Bahroo’s list (Maliwan Pistol & Sniper, Tinderbox, Thunderball Fists, Blockhead, etc.) are all capable of dealing two elemental effects per projectile shot. Hence, if both the main and splash projectiles proc an elemental effect, a single shot from a Maliwan Snider will result in double the elemental effect damage, or DoT, listed on the weapon card.

For multi-projectile weapons such as the Blockhead, this is even more potent as each projectile possesses splash and thus, there are twice as many proc chances as there are projectiles, e.g. a Gentle Blockhead, which fires 11 pellets, has up to 22 separate chances to inflict the listed DoT damage, per trigger pull. Consequently, a single trigger pull from the Blockhead can inflict multiple burn DoTs simultaneously. Crazy stuff. See below for 6 simultaneous burns from a single shot:

Now, back to the ‘1-DoTers’. Unlike the ‘complete elemental splashers’, the ‘1-DoTers’ (don’t judge me for my terrible neologisms - they’re all I have, people!) cannot deal two full elemental effects per projectile. This is because the splash projectiles of the ‘1-DoT’ weapons are only capable of procing ‘1-damage DoTs’ (this shall be demonstrated in the next section), as opposed to the elemental effect damage listed on the weapon card – as such, if both splash and main procced, you would only proc a regular DoT from the main projectile and a 1-damage DoT from the splash. Furthermore, even if the splash projectiles were altered to actually inflict regular DoT damage, the splash projectiles of the ‘1-DoTers’ have a considerably lower chance than that listed on the card to proc their ‘1-damage DoTs’. How much lower? Let’s give it a test, shall we?

‘1-damage DoT’ weapon testing (INTERESTING STUFF!)

Initial note: This thread is still very much a work in progress. Given how much I have delayed this thread already, I shall post what findings I have thus far, whilst hopefully continuing to update throughout the wee while. Much (repetitive) testing is yet to be done. Also, some earlier testing was conducted at level 61, prior to the second UVHM pack, while additional testing was conducted at level 72.

So, the next step is a fairly extensive one and one which presents numerous issues. The testing to be presented is primarily exploratory in nature, given that very little prior research has been conducted. Out of the five ‘1-DoT’ weapons (and single weapon category) listed in the previous section, I only tested two – the HellFire and the Volcano. The primary reason for this exclusivism is that these weapons are simply much easier to test than the others – regular Plasma Casters (and the Yellow Jacket) have exceedingly large projectiles, the Teeth of Terra has a unique projectile behaviour and multiple pellets, and the Hail - well, it’s less than ideal.

HellFire Testing

Firstly, I attempted to obtain a rough estimate for the percentage for the HellFire’s splash projectile to proc a ‘1-DoT’. In order to do this, I decided that a basic data grind would be the best way to go about this. As such, I decided to fire 1000 shots at (technically, just beside) the target dummy (as demonstrated - with a standard, 18.8% HellFire. Results below:

1000 shots from 18.8% HellFire (splash) – No BAR, No Flicker

48 ‘1-DoTs’
0 Regular DoTs (I included this merely to prove a point)
So, from my sample size of 1000, roughly 5% of splash shots triggered a ‘1-DoT’.

Next, I attempted to determine if Flicker (and, by extension, More Pep and increased elemental effect chance from BAR) affected this ~5%. Another 1000 shots later:

1000 shots from 18.8% HellFire (splash) – No BAR, 10/5 Flicker (+60% elemental effect chance)

57 ‘1-DoTs’
0 Regular DoTs
Despite the fact that these results are not entirely conclusive, I am inclined to say that this figure does not represent an increase and simply falls within the high end of the previous ~5% figure. Having not run any statistical tests, I cannot say this with any real level of statistical surety (Rob, if you feel offended by this, please do not hesitate to do your graph wizardry thing), but given the fairly large sample size and constancy of outside variables (outside of adding 5 points in Flicker, no additional changes were made), I think it is unlikely that Flicker’s 60% increased proc chance is factoring in here.

Having tested the HellFire’s splash to determine the % chance to proc ‘1-DoTs’, I decided to put to rest some previous claims that subsequent shots against a ‘1-DoT-ing’ target change the ‘1-DoT’ to a regular DoT. Within a single magazine, I was able to discredit this theory – ‘1-DoTs’ do not magically transform upon infliction of a second, regular DoT; the two merely co-exist: Moving on.

Now, the next test yielded some unexpected results. Having confirmed that the HellFire’s splash projectiles are incapable of dealing regular DoT damage, have a roughly 5% chance per shot to inflict ‘1-DoTs’ and that ‘1-DoTs’ cannot transition into regular DoTs, I wanted to determine if the HellFire nonetheless has some sort of increased chance to apply elemental effects. Hence, the next test involved firing at the dummy 1000 times, this time hitting with the main projectile. I would add a screenshot, but that would be extremely condescending.

1000 shots from 18.8% HellFire (main) – No BAR, No Flicker

292 Regular DoTs
0 Double DoTs (again, included merely to dispel rumours that a single HellFire shot can proc 2 DoTs simultaneously – it can’t)
With 18.8%, we would be expecting around 190 (188) regular DoTs. Instead, there were 292 regular DoTs, which is over 50% more than would be expected. Given our fairly large sample size and that the expected and actual outcomes differ considerably, we can pretty safely assume that the actual % for the HellFire to proc DoTs differs from the listed %.

(Again, Rob or anyone else especially mathematically inclined, feel free to submit statistical sorcery to supplement my results)

Well, this is an interesting development. For reasons unbeknownst, despite the fact that the splash of the Hellfire is incapable of procing regular DoTs, a regular HellFire shot (this means simultaneous splash + main projectile) results in a higher burn chance than that listed on the item card. Is this indicative of some unique interaction between the splash and the main projectile? Is the main projectile of the HellFire simply ~50% more likely to inflict elemental DoTs? Evidently, I don’t know, and there is much room for further testing. But always onward…

Volcano Testing

After determining that the HellFire’s main projectile possesses a higher-than-listed elemental effect chance, a good next step would be to determine if any of the other ‘1-DoTers’ carry this same trait. Hence, I decided to run a similar test for the Volcano. In this test, I decided to fire only 500 shots, for no other reason than laziness, striking the target dummy with the main projectile (and hence, the splash also). Additionally, I decided to measure the double negatives (no Regular DoT, no 1-DoT) and hence, by subtraction, the number of ‘1-DoTs’. This was mainly done, just in case future testing unveils some obscure interaction between these variables:

500 shots from 50% Volcano (main) – No BAR, No Flicker

377 Regular DoTs
81 Double Negatives
(42 ‘1-DoTs’)
(0 Double DoTs)
Hmm, with a listed 50% elemental effect chance, we would predict ~250 Regular DoTs – instead, we got 377. Like with the HellFire, our Volcano test results are netting us over 50% more Regular DoTs (that is to say, ~75%, instead of 50%) than the listed elemental effect of the weapon card would suggest. Basically, more weirdness.

Finally, just for comparison’s sake, I decided to give the splash of a regular Maliwan Snider a test. This was done primarily to determine whether the elemental splash on Maliwan sniper rifles does in fact have the same percentage proc chance as that listed on the item card.

500 shots from 52.7% Snider (splash) – No BAR, No Flicker

306 Regular DoTs
0 ‘1-DoTs’
306 procs out of 500 – that makes for just over 61% procs, which is approximately 15% higher than would be expected. Now, one could speculate that something of note could be made from this result, but at present, I’m just going to conclude the obvious and say that the splash of the Snider has at least equivalent elemental effect chance as that listed on the card.

To briefly summarize rough findings/confirmations from tests:
  • The splash of ‘1-DoTers’ (such as the HellFire and Volcano) cannot proc regular DoT, only 1-damage DoTs

  • 1-DoT proc chance (~5% for HellFire) appears to be unaffected by BAR/increased elemental effect chance

  • 1-damage DoTs do not transition into regular DoTs upon infliction of a subsequent DoT

  • Oddly though, HellFire and Volcano direct shots result in ~50% higher-than-listed regular DoT proc chance – unknown if this effect extends to all ‘1-DoTers’

  • (Maliwan barrel) Snider splash procs regular DoTs at a rate at least equal to the listed proc chance – unknown if this applies to the splash of all functioning elemental splash weapons


Conjectural stint
Early on, I contemplated whether the ‘1-DoT’ splash was actually an intentional gimping of certain weapons. For example, in the case of Plasma Casters – perhaps early on in weapon development, the idea of an SMG (or any rapid-fire weapon) having a second chance to proc an elemental effect, on top of having 50% bonus damage as splash, was considered too powerful. Furthermore, perhaps based on how the elemental effect mechanism was set up, it was not possible to remove a weapon’s chance to proc an effect entirely. Hence, the ‘1-DoT’ effect was implemented to ensure that PCs did not have a DoT advantage over standard elemental non-E-tech SMGs. Using this example, the same logic may have been applied to the HellFire, Yellow Jacket and potentially, Hail.

While the above scenario is possible, it completely fails to account for why the Teeth of Terramorphous and the Volcano were afflicted with the same bug.

Let’s address the Teeth first. The Blockhead, another multi-pellet shotgun with multiple splash projectiles, has fully functional splash (elemental effect-wise) – hence, no justifiable reason why the Teeth’s projectiles should not, especially given that it is a rare spawn from a raid boss (not to mention, due to its erratic shot pattern, connecting all of the projectiles is far more difficult to do than the Blockhead). Given the similar function of each weapon (Unique, close-mid range, multi-pellet fire shotguns), it seems unlikely that one of the weapons would have its splash DoT effectiveness intentionally reduced, while the other’s was untouched. Heck, given that it’s a raid boss drop, one would expect the Teeth of Terra to be the better performer!

EDIT: Let's hope this is an indication of good things to come!

Oh no, here he goes again... The Volcano

Now, to address a weapon I have touched on many a time – the Volcano. Out of the ‘1-DoT offenders’, this one is the worst by a large margin. Now, as many of you who visit the forums may have already noticed, I have already made several posts bemoaning the weaknesses of the Volcano. Hence, I have included an extended summary of most my points made thus far regarding its issues below in spoiler text:

Volcano - The BL1 Volcano's fire clouds were a gorgeous thing to behold, and the damage they inflicted, when combined with a headshot, made for serious murder – the fact that the cloud obscured vision made the gun seem that much more hardcore (even if it made consecutive headshots rather difficult). Flashy effects aside, BL2's Volcano [] has lower base damage and lower chance to ignite than an equal-parts Purple Maliwan sniper rifle [] (which it admittedly makes up for somewhat with its 80%, as opposed to 50%, splash) and also suffers from the dreaded 1-damage DoT bug. Consequently, a Maliwan Snider of equal parts will consistently crit higher than the Volcano and is considerably more effective at inflicting DoT damage. To rub salt in the wound, the Volcano does not proc fiery explosions (inorite?). In fact, the splash range of the Volcano is no larger than a typical Maliwan sniper rifle. Basically, a good Purple-Rarity Maliwan Snider is a better sniper rifle than a Volcano, unless one equips a Bee or prefers to body shot with snipers. Higher crit damage; higher elemental effect chance and better DoT output; does not require repeated farming of a stingy boss to acquire - the facts are all there. The Volcano really did get a raw deal.

More Volcano Problems

Firstly, what I did not mention in my summary (but which I had actually determined earlier) is that the splash radius of the BL2's Volcano is no larger than that of other Purple-rarity Maliwan sniper rifles. This actually upsets me more than I would like to admit (I'm a sensitive bastard, what can I say), especially given the massive fire clouds of BL1. Removing the vision-obscuring effect is understandable (even though that was one of the factors that made the weapon all the more delicious), but not improving the AoE of the splash really undermines the whole 'volcano' title.

Furthermore, the 1-damage DoT is actually especially awful for the Volcano because, unlike the Hellfire, which has a 'splash' feature not found on typical Maliwan SMGs, the Volcano exists in the Maliwan sniper rifle class, all of which have splash damage! Consequently, despite its 'high' proc chance (again, outmatched by equal parts Maliwan sniper rifle) and increased damage, the Volcano's splash damage is actually worse at inflicting DoT than a regular Maliwan sniper rifle, given that regular Maliwan snipes do not suffer from the 1 DoT bug (feel free to test it for yourself), and thus, each shot has two chances to proc an elemental effect.

As touched on earlier, the equal-parts Maliwan Snider shown in the OP will consistently deal more damage on a critical hit than the Volcano, irrespective of damage- and/or critical-increasing skills, except when a Bee is used. With the Bee equipped, the Volcano beats out the Snider by a small amount (note: Reaper Maya is the exception, due to the way the skill's damage increase is calculated - with Reaper, the Snider is more powerful with or without the Bee).

Finally, considering the Snider can come in any element, the Volcano's superior rarity status and elemental exclusivity indicates that it should outperform a fire Snider - the Snider still can very much serve its role as your shock, corrosive and/or slag sniper rifle. The all-purpose Purple should not beat out the single-purpose Orange at its own game.
In short, on top of simply being a weaker, elementally-restricted purple Snider, the Volcano, despite its unlisted, increased DoT chance demonstrated during testing, has worse DoT application than any non-Unique Maliwan sniper rifle, due to its glitched, ‘1-DoTing’ splash. Even a white rarity Maliwan sniper rifle has the potential to score two elemental effects on a main target and a single elemental effect on all nearby enemies, from a single shot; the Volcano, on the other hand, can only ever score one elemental effect on its main target, per shot – peripheral/nearby enemies within the splash radius will never have regular burn DoTs on them, only insulting ‘1-DoTs’. And again, just to further dead the false rumor, the Volcano’s splash radius is exactly the same size as that of a regular Snider, no larger.

This. Really. Sucks. Anus.

I feel I have hammered home hard enough that the Volcano currently is a very problematic weapon, both in terms of its lacking strength and by how badly it is affected by its ‘1-DoT’ splash. Now, of course, one may ask: who cares if the Volcano isn’t all that great? “Not every weapon is going to be a winner.” “Maliwan has enough great weaponry”. “It’s still pretty good…” My issues with this take are two-fold:

Firstly, the Volcano is a returning weapon from BL1. The BL1 Volcano, for anyone that played the first game, was a pretty fantastic Incendiary sniper rifle. It was inordinately common for a Legendary, but that did not detract from the fact that it was simply a very good weapon, and was substantially better than purple rarity, elemental counterparts:
Fire Rate: +25%
Tech Level: +16

Damage: -40%
Tech Level: +6
On top of having increased Tech Level (Spoiler: basically, better Incendiary effect), increased fire rate (see above) and substantially increased damage (Spoiler: typically, elemental weaponry in BL1 suffered substantial damage reduction, simply due to having an elemental accessory – the BL1 Volcano, however, like the BL1 HellFire, did not have reduced damage), the BL1 Volcano also had an increased area-of-effect proc, highlighted by an iconic, fiery cloud. Improved elemental effect chance, increased fire rate, increased damage, increased AoE, fiery cloud of win – the BL2 Volcano possesses none of these things. Essentially, the BL1 Volcano was far more potent than its Maliwan sniper counterparts; the BL2 Volcano is not, to say the least.
Evoking the great aspects of the first game is great and all, but why bring back 'the old favorites', as it were, if the BL2 variants are going to be inferior to their BL1 counterparts?
Perhaps most importantly though, the Volcano simply lacks the ‘awesomeness factor’. While this might seem like a ridiculous point, given that coolness/awesomeness is subjective, I would argue that a major contributing factor to why Borderlands is so fun is because of this awesomeness factor - the quirky, non-typical nature of the game. The BL2 Volcano’s greatest shortcoming is that it is simply uninspiring. Apart from a neat skin and the simple fact that it is a Legendary, there is nothing significant/interesting that distinguishes the Volcano from a standard Snider. I mean, it’s called the Volcano – one would think that it should hence serve as one of the premier, if not the premier fire sniper rifle in the game, especially given that 1) it’s Maliwan, and 2) it’s restricted to the fire element!

Frankly, it's still saddening that it doesn't cause a fiery, volcanic explosion (like its original conception), perhaps akin to the death animation for Volcanic Crystalisks (skip to 9:39 for instance), but it is likely too late in the game’s development to implement that level of change. That said, damage, elemental effect, AoE – I would think that these variables are still capable of alteration. Make the Volcano worthy of its name.

Finally, to cap off yet another Volcano rant, I will finish off with a Handsome Jack quote here, which I feel beautifully illustrates my point:

“…goddamn volcanoes -- I mean, who doesn’t love volcanoes? They’re mountains that explode fire! That's literally the definition of the word awesome. Am I -- am I right?”


In light of the evidence, I think it is safe to conclude that the ‘1-DoT bug’ is indeed a bug/glitch/whatever you want to call it. That is to say, it is evidently not an intended effect or gameplay mechanic. For this reason alone, the ‘1-DoT bug’ should be fixed. The splash projectiles of the aforementioned list of ‘1-DoTers’ should be fixed to actually have a chance to apply regular DoT.

In the current UVHM landscape where the effectiveness of DoT has been reduced considerably, making sure that weapons are actually dealing at least "the amount of DoT that they are designed to" should be a concern. Weapons such as the HellFire, which has a massive emphasis on DoT damage, would benefit immensely from a fully DoT-functional splash.

Moreover though, on top of the simple fact that bugs ought to be fixed, this particular bug is one that detrimentally impacts the awesomeness level of these weapons and sadly, gunplay in general.

Seeing those '1's pop up above an enemy's head is an ugly, constant reminder that you are not dealing as much elemental effect damage as you should be.

Watching '1's rattling off an enemy when you should be seeing thousands certainly doesn't make you feel much like a badass.

For those who enjoy using '1-DoT' weapons, the 1-brigade is a stark visual reminder that the weapons are bugged.

I can imagine it's not as simple a fix as one would hope, but it's one that I think would be vastly appreciated a large proportion of the player community.

Last edited by divadus; October 10th, 2013 at 10:51 PM. Reason: Formatting, retitling and junk
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Old October 10th, 2013, 06:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: Elaboration on the '1-DoT bug' - Explanation, Testing and Thoughts

That clears up allot actually. Great read man!
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Old October 10th, 2013, 06:44 AM   #3
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Default Re: Elaboration on the '1-DoT bug' - Explanation, Testing and Thoughts

need to take a look again, but i am pretty sure i just saw this yesterday on a rabid stalker using dpuh/nozzle with a zerker.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 06:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: Elaboration on the '1-DoT bug' - Explanation, Testing and Thoughts

Originally Posted by Smm42 View Post
That clears up allot actually. Great read man!
Thanks! It's an issue that's been around since BL2 came out, and noone really seemed to say much more about it than 'some guns glitch their DoT from time to time'. Thought I may as well share my testing, and make a more comprehensive thread about it.

Originally Posted by pApA^LeGBa View Post
need to take a look again, but i am pretty sure i just saw this yesterday on a rabid stalker using dpuh/nozzle with a zerker.
Saw what exactly? DPUH is Explosive and Nozzle is slag, neither of which can inflict DoT. Perhaps the skag was near a fire/shock/corrosive barrel when it exploded? Detonated elemental barrels can cause similarly low damage ticks (between 2 and ~9 is what I have found), but it has nothing to do with the weapons you use.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: Elaboration on the '1-DoT bug' - Explanation, Testing and Thoughts

Thanks for testing and posting this.

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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: Elaboration on the '1-DoT bug' - Explanation, Testing and Thoughts

This is, indeed, a very thorough explanation! Amazing job on all of that research, diva!

With that said, it's still 7:18AM here.. only 1 cup of coffee so far, and my brain's still a bit foggy. I'm still going through the OP, while trying to wake up..

Does this basically come down to "1-DoT overrides listed weapon DoT"?

Also, I have a lot of videos where this can be visually witnessed, since I main two of the guns in your list.. if you'd like a short compilation of these instances, let me know, and I'll make it
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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:28 AM   #7
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Default Re: Elaboration on the '1-DoT bug' - Explanation, Testing and Thoughts

Originally Posted by divadus View Post

Saw what exactly?
white 1´s floating around when shotting it. didn´t mention that. they should be orange/purple/yellow/blue/green and not white? right?

but as said, i have to check again. not 100% sure.
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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:32 AM   #8
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Default Re: Elaboration on the '1-DoT bug' - Explanation, Testing and Thoughts

Well this explains a lot.

Props to you for working all of this out, posting it and formatting it well. Here's to getting it fixed!
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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:54 AM   #9
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Default Re: Elaboration on the '1-DoT bug' - Explanation, Testing and Thoughts

Very good read - long, but interesting. Unfortunately, it's too late for fixes. DoT just sucks in every single way in this game.

What caught me was the "awesome factor". Man, do I love my BL1 3-mag Volcano crushing a skull with a hard bang and setting the world on fire! Pele indeed demands a sacrifice!
Same with the Storm (BL2 Orion). Would it hurt so much to just make those weapons' splash awesome? They are legendary and even PEARLESCENT after all!
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Old October 10th, 2013, 07:56 AM   #10
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Default Re: Elaboration on the '1-DoT bug' - Explanation, Testing and Thoughts

Originally Posted by pApA^LeGBa View Post
white 1´s floating around when shotting it. didn´t mention that. they should be orange/purple/yellow/blue/green and not white? right?

but as said, i have to check again. not 100% sure.
I've noticed this alot while fighting pete and standing close to him after his nova aattack. Never really paid it muchecks thought though
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