100 Hours of Battleborn, Some Thoughts

I played the open beta for 50 hours and I’ve played the game 57 hours so far (I know, I have no life <3).

This game is ■■■■■■■ great. I absolutely love it, but I am very strongly considering just bailing on it entirely. There are an absurd number of balance issues that just aren’t being addressed, both by the community and Gearbox. There are very, very obviously characters that stand out as “the best”, if you don’t like that wording, then they are very, very good characters. This is by far my biggest issue with this game. There are a ton of Helix mutations that are never, ever used because they’re so subpar to their counter. One example is Oscar Mike’s impact grenade, which is absolutely the best upgrade you can get. In fact, without it, the character is extremely weak and unable to do his job properly. If you argue with that, you’re really just full of ■■■■ and optimism. The napalm impact is the staple of Mike, it’s what everyone uses.

On to what a bunch of ■■■■■■■■ are going to say to this post, “you can counter everything”. Okay sure you can. What do most people play? Public matches with random people. That’s not terribly organized or planned, and it shouldn’t have to be. That wouldn’t be very fun. So why are there characters that are so powerful the only way to stop them is to stun them? My main example for this is Rath, who disgusts me. I’m not sure what the plan was there. The reason a lot of people are leaving matches early is because this game is just rancid with exploits and ■■■■■■■■. For instance, the Reyna Miko combo. There are plenty of ways to counter this, but most people just plain suck at anything that isn’t holding down Mouse1 and a few movement keys (hence the melee popularity). Sure there’s skill based characters, but no one is using them and no one will. So if you load into a game with a random team vs a random team, and your team is just playing the characters they like, and the other team, by chance has a Miko, Reyna, Galilea, Rath, it’s going to be a ■■■■■■ time. That’s not okay. There shouldn’t just be some dice roll as to whether or not your team is going to be stomped silly by some obscene combination of abilities. There is no combination of ranged characters that has the same effect as that of the melee characters. And I’m not sure why that is. Thorn and Marquis don’t spell doom for a game. Oscar and Whiskey, no big deal. But Galilea and Rath? ■■■■.

My main point is that the very, very obviously “better” characters need to be addressed, now. I keep playing games where the enemy team is mostly melee characters, and my team, inevitably, gets stomped. And in chat I say “wow I’m really sick of these melee guys being absurdly powerful” and someone ALWAYS has a sarcastic remark to make, as if I’m completely and utterly wrong. After enough of a pattern being shown, it should be pretty ■■■■■■■ clear who’s “better” and who’s “worse”. I think it’s been made extremely clear so far, and that it should have addressed already.

Oh and as for people who might say “I’m sick of hearing about balance issues on the forums”, this is a highly competitive multiplayer game. The balance is the entire core of this game. It is going to be discussed immediately and it should be discussed as much as possible.

So I see two routes for this game: an endless battle of nerfs and buffs across a bunch of different characters over the lifetime of this game, or they do nothing and it stays the way it is. I’m assuming it’s going to go the first route, and I hope it does, because that will keep the game fresh.

My bigger concern with that route is that the Devs seem to think that when something makes sense of paper, it makes sense in game. That’s not how it works. I’ve been told quite a few times how viable and deadly Whiskey Foxtrot is, but no one ever plays him and it’s unanimously agreed that he’s weak. It’s been this way for months, literally months. If this mindset is applied to more powerful characters, we will never get any kind of balance in this game and will be forced to play certain characters EVERY ■■■■■■■ GAME. I don’t know about you guys, but I’d rather be able to play characters that I want to play without concern that there’s a character on the enemy who’s so powerful, the only way to kill him is with CC. That’s the state of the game right now, and I’m getting extremely tired of it.

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Remember, the game has officially been out less than a week. I feel they’ll change some of those concerns soon, or at least deserve a chance to.

No argument though, I’m not trying to change how you feel. If you aren’t having fun anymore, maybe it’s time you set this game down and give it a change of pace.

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Balance issues take time, even LoL, the king of games, takes a few weeks to make tweeks, test tweeks, then implement. No game with a large roster will ever be free from needing constant adjustments. Tweeking will always be a thing and balance issues will always persist.

I guess since I’ve played LoL and HotS that I’m used to this type of thing.

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I agree that there are a handful of characters I don’t see getting picked very often at all. I can imagine the collective groan of my pvp team mates when I pick WF haha. I think it’s just going to be difficult to balance a game with such a variety of playstyles and skills to the level it sounds like you are expecting. I haven’t had many issues playing against Raths because I main Mellka who doesn’t play in the front line melee conflict. If I get flanked’n’ganked by a Rath/Gali then that’s on me. If I don’t focus on trying to flush out the Miko or Reyna, then that’s on me. I’ve played against both good and bad Rath/Gali/Reyna/Miko players without being too traumatised in any outcome. I’m probably not as competitive as you are though, judging by the tone of your post :sweat_smile:

I honestly think the reason more of the same characters get picked comes from their likability. I loved Galilea the moment I saw this game. Badass armour, shield, and sword? That’s my jam! Boldur is pretty sweet with his Dwarvish axe and shield look. Rath being a 3 sword wielding samurai vampire? That’s cool. I like WF because his random craziness reminds me of Krieg from BL2, my favourite character. I hate the look of Kleese, Toby, Attikus, ISIC, and Kelvin so I just won’t be playing them much, if at all. Aesthetics still play a large part in character selection.

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I agree on all points. Sadly, you WILL see lots of Raths, because he’s one of the few characters that’s available from the beginning with no unlocking needed.

The common response to this kind of posts is “there’s always a counter”. Well, maybe there is, but I can’t change the character after the game starts. This argument makes just as much sense as “you should have magically predicted the enemy team characters and choose appropriately”.

The other tests (CTT, OB, EA) have lasted at least a month total, gathering lots of statistics, and yet Rath’s spin-to-win is still as ridiculous as it has ever been.

That is why you just don’t need 30+ characters or 1 bazillion guns. You’ll only ever use the top 5 anyway.

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“I hate the look of Kleese, Toby, Attikus, ISIC, and Kelvin”

Okay for Kleese but the others are my favorite !! :grin:

Yeah, let me reword that lol…

I think their character design is awesome, but they don’t look like characters I want to play as :sweat_smile:

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I dont think I can accept this as an answer. Yes the game has been out for only a week, but they had multiple closed beta tests and an open beta test where the same issues were brought up every single time… Not only have they not been worked on, but most have not even been acknowledged by Devs…

so its looking pretty questionable right now…

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You need to give the game some time, people rank slow, it will take time until they will have more caracter to pickup.
about adjustement.

Regarding Rath and Gal comment you made, they have counter.

I did play recently Gal until rank 10; I see alot of bad Gal player and I did see some awesome Gal that did crush me in 1v1
base on that, I did notice a very good counter to it; I think people need to learn their advesary ability to understand how it work. For exemple, I did see to many folks trying to kill me inside my Hex…

But my key point here is :You cannot ‘nerf’ a caracter because the other player are s****.

I think they should improve some of the range caracter though, a bit not to much;

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I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. What is the counter that you speak about? Is it “choose a different character”?

counters to melee characters are obviously slows and stuns. A lot of characters have either the option of giving an ability either a slow for enemies or a speedboost for friends. Thorn e.g. is excelent vs rath. just cast her aoe at your feet, you go 30% faster and he goes 30% slower (that is, if you choose the right helix options). if they can’t get in range they’re screwed. I don’t think rath is op at all, just don’t let him get close (sprint speed anyone?). to galilea: aoe attacks to counter her shield. I do athink galilea’s stun is too good for such a hard hitting character. I think it should be a 2 sec slow instead (which can be countered by a speedboost or a counterslow)

Raths ‘spin to win’ becomes nigh useless when people pay attention and slow him when he goes in.

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Well you can personally counter Rath as explained above. Slows, sprint speed gear and movementspeed buffs should do the trick. Also, if you have an escape skill like orendi’s backjump, benedicts upjumt, isics teleport, Mike’s invis, montana’s dash, toby’s jumpdash, caldarius dash, reyna’s ult, thorns amazing and often overlooked highjump, Baldurs dash, el dragons dash, mellkas jump and her dash, Kelvins snowflake, phoebe’s teleport etc. It shouldn’t be too hard to evade at least most melee characters.

Know when to turn around and run/jump/dash away and don’t just stand there pulling the shoot button waiting for them to die. Almost all characters have either a slow, a stun or a dash. most even have multiple of those abilities.

try playing as melee characters and see how disorientating and weird it is to play. use that knowledge to your advantage. if your character has a highjump it might be worth it to jump over them instead of away from them when they are really close for example and retreat.

But i guess to you I’m an ■■■■■■■ now for going against your point of view and trying to give you solutions… Well, so be it then.

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Ha! Well said.

Anybody know a game with 25+ characters that has better balance across the board?

I think the case is being dramatically overstated here. Yes, there are some issues, but we’ve already seen some adjustments in the last few days and there will be more. Much ado about nothing, IMO.

Regarding the helix, that’s very true. We’ve been told they are tracking this closely and will make changes. Hopefully this is just a matter of being a bit patient.

You’re only reinforcing my point… If the character is so powerful that every other character has no choice but to run away, that character is way too powerful. There isn’t anyone in this game that you need to run from except rath and Gali and Phoebe. Kinda odd. Boldur is deadly but he’s slow on attack so you can deal with him in many ways. I really don’t care if you’re offended by my post. I’m sick of people not acknowledging the fact that there are several characters that are far more powerful than all the others. It’s SO obvious. It’s not even a matter of opinion at a certain point, if you look at playtime totals on characters, I guarantee you Gali and Rath beat out everyone else.

Melee characters need some sort of advantage over the competition. It doesn’t make sense to have the same health, speed, damage as a ranged character and then “Oh btw, you gotta do it using only this butter knife. Ta!”

That’s not what I want oh my god. Why can’t people be sane and approach this evenly?! Rath is a berserker type character, he just rushes in and does tons of damage. What is a berserkers weakness? Their health. Oh wait Rath has normal health, he should have Benedict’s health. If he heals it would be an actual challenge to play him and stay alive, you would have to choose your battles instead of rush ulting EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER.

I’ll echo what others are saying, give it time. As more people play, learn to master toons, we will see a shift in strategies. In random matches there will inevitably be newbies that are not familiar with tactics. There will always be a few toons that dominate the K/D boards, that is there place. Support toons will never get as many player kills as the DPS toons. I had a match last night where the enemy team had a Rath/Galilea that had more kills than anyone on my team, yet we still won 86-0 (incursion). There will be nerfs/buffs, but for now I think GBX wants players to learn as much as possible before making a definitive decision to change something that may not even need it. I also get the vibe that GBX did not want this to be a “hardcore” competitive game, but more casual and fun. Just my opinion though.

Pretty clear you didn’t even read my post. These have been issues in this game for months.