#12

Two major things I’ve noticed straight up:

Iron Bear builds can now take EVERY hardpoint boosting skill, as well as taking a minimum of three points in vampyr. You can sacrifice corrosive sabots for more points in vampyr with little penalty. Combine with a 160 splash annointed gun and a quick reloading shield with extra health and capacity on ASE and you physically cannot improve an Iron Bear build without exploits. (Bar two more points in vampyr). At least as far as raw damage output is concerned.

  1. For Blastmaster builds, the struggle will be:
    Do I put three points in click, click or sacrifice a few from iron bank and go to full armoured infantry and drowning in brass. I’ll be doing some M4 MTD runs tonight to figure this out.

  2. Bonus round! I haven’t found a great bloodletter since hitting lvl cap so I haven’t looked at it from this angle yet. I’m feeling it might make grabbing the grenade revive or bigger mags a better option, or even maxing out all options in the first three blue tiers a worthy choice. Hard to say. I’d love more experienced bloodletter commentary on this.

#13

Yeah, I probably should try to reboot my standard layout for my builds. I have spent so much time min-maxing my points now that I can’t think of a different way to spend my points.

It might be a good idea to try allegiance builds. I’ve recently convinced my friends (who play fl4k and Amara) that Moze is the superior and only choice, so we are planning to do an m4 campaign each with a different allegiance. Maybe this is my occasion to just go for something new.

Not much, really :sweat_smile: My blast master build already works wonders, the only use I can think of is putting 3 more points in SRPM to make SF deadlier. But, IDK. While it’s true that I am making my build stronger, I am also not adding anything new to it. I would have liked at least 2 more points.

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#14

They’ll come. It’ll take eight more points, and Moze will be go from number 4 to number 1, because all four major damage types will be available on her trees, and the two special multipliers will be available via com and artifact.

For me, extending my build is either three points in click click, which is very tempting. Sacrificing mag size in return for armoured infantry, which could be worth it if the damage reduction and gun damage bonuses are significant, or I could plough all the points into IB cooldown and spare grenades.

I’m going to say it again, three points is enough to reach EVERY IB enhancing skill, that isn’t kill skill reliant. If you can’t make the bear work from there, go play Amara. I’ve been reading the salt on the update news post and the salt coming from some posters here, whose opinions and input I truly respect has been absolutely appalling. I’m not singling you out bud, at all, but come on. Some of you need to pull ya heads in. Edit: offensive language.

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#15

I am sure they will; I just don’t like the small incrementals, it almost makes me want to quit and play only after the increase will become more sizable.
But I know that it won’t happen; I am just too salty right now and I am complaining even if the update still hasn’t rolled out yet.

I am pretty tempted by this, even tho all of my IB build variations lacked impact during cooldown. I should maybe try them again now with the extra points, or just do a new build from scratch so I don’t feel like I have to rely on my previously farmed gear.

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#16

I think that’s the spirit. I’m gonna delete my bank, (well sell, I have alts that need sdus), and start fresh. I know what I want to keep now, I don’t need eight different cutsmans just in case, I’ve narrowed down my best class mods, I don’t need to keep fifty in case some undiscovered interaction makes them viable, we’ve pretty much nailed that in these forums. In fact, I’m still farming for a better mod, I still haven’t had that GOD ROLL last stand victory rush drop. And as a filthy casual, I’ve still managed to claw my gear and knowledge to a place where I managed to solo Wotan. Sweet. I’ve got three more DLCs and other events, and mayhem 2.0 to sink my teeth into coming. Keen.

#17

I think the extra 3 points have brought her a little closer to the others just because Moze’s best and most important skills happen to be in the first 4 tiers of each skill tree. She doesn’t really need to place any emphasis or importance on her capstones. They’re all good in their own ways but they’re not super-critical to the point of being must-haves no matter what; you can easily make a solid build for Moze with 0 capstones involved and the same could be said of Zane.

As for her jumping from #4 to #1 with more skill points, that also depends on a) whatever new class mods are on the horizon and b) whether or not Gearbox start adding more skill trees for each character. When people talk about the pecking order of characters from strongest to weakest, they tend to mean how they compare to each other when they perform with their absolute peak-meta builds with that one special class mod that reigns supreme above all others.

But if you’re comparing them in terms of their entire range of skills and their range of class mods that help them shape their own unique identity in a variety of ways, then the entire pack are much closer to each other overall and then yes, I would agree at the very least that Moze would no longer be sat at #4 when more skill points are available to us in the future.

#18

I’d just wish for a class mod where I don’t have to wait for my damage to build up (looking at you blast master and green monster) and just straight buffs me like other character mods (looking at you, seeing dead and bounty hunter).

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#19

yeah, not sure what to do with these 3 extra points either. a quick glance over my current most used builds right now, my “flakker” build gets most benefit. 3 to StE.

#20

Yeah i’m not really sure what I’ll do with the extra 3 points. Maybe i’ll go into scrappy. I always liked that skill since i’m always swapping to and from rocket launchers, I just couldn’t ever afford it

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#21

3 extra points allows you to reach 5/5 Vampyr on a pure damage IB build (allowing you to run the GM com rather than to Best Master) or 5/5 Phalanx on a 1 HP/bottomless mags build.

Either of those are really going to help with survivability.

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#22

I can’t imagine Moze is gonna change all that much, I’m just gonna drop those 3 points into scorching RPM’s and leave it at that.

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#23

Being able to use Short Fuse and Tenacious Defense might be a nice boost if you’re running a Blast Master. +100% splash is already nasty with 5/5 Armored Infantry, 5/5 Drowning in Brass, 3/3 Desperate Measures, and 5/5 Phalanx Doctrine giving a minimum of +155% gun damage after 3 kills (plus any additional kills stacking PD).

Another 40% plus gets you up to (assuming my maths are correct and, honestly, BL damage math occasionally confuses me) an end result of almost 4x card damage with Blast Master after a minute. That’s not insignificant if you’re in enough trouble your shield broke (or you’re running a small shield and its breaking often enough to keep the +40 up most of a fight/map).

#24

I’d still rather get infinite ammo with Blast Master than go all the way to TD. Gun damage is great and all but DiB + DM + Artifact + Mod gun damage… Adding PD and TD aren’t really going to net you that much more damage.

It’s all still just stacking more gun damage on top of itself. And +2 Redistribution is so much more effective than +1.

We’ll see though.

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#25

True, but if you get a high-mag splash gun (44-mag Kyb’s Worth or Westergun) and are able to find something to boost mag size, 1 point in Redistribution and 3/3 in MoD should do you pretty well as long as you’re disciplined with your trigger finger.

If you’re hitting crits (which you are to proc Redistribution), it’s not going to take many rounds to kill enemies. Especially when Short Fuse procs.

Then again, I’m also considering trying something like THIS once I hit level 53. (Which kinda pains me since I really do love the SoR tree.)

#26

Don’t you find the bubble shield to… suck? It has a 5 second initial delay which is terrible and it doesn’t regen when Auto Bear is active

#27

It’s fine. More helpful sheltering you when you jump out of IB.

#28

I’m usually just hopping in and out and using Auto Bear. The 5 seconds sucks but it’s only one point for a bit of extra survival (usually I or my co-op hide behind it if we need to regen our shields quick). Usually I’ll hop into IB, hit baddies with some target softening and shock gun once or twice to strip sheilds and de-buff, and that usually gives me enough time for the shield to warm up.

I saw a suggestion for it to recharge your shield like NOGs do for other goons, and that would be awesome to have with Auto Bear. A much of a hassle as IB is as an action skill, I really wish it would synergize better with Moze. Like, even if you could command it to attack targets when you’re out of it, or just a quick-press to summon Auto Bear like Axton/Roland’s turrets and long-press to automatically hop into IB.

#29

I added the extra points to Phalanx Doctrine pushing it to 7/5 on my Moze:

I expected to do less damage on Level 53 with Level 50 weapons, but the 3 extra points in Phalanx Doctrine more than outweighted this.

#30

I dunno, using CMTs to constantly proc Redistribution doesn’t keep up with my large mag 2x Kyb’s. 2 points does if I boost the mag enough, but I still have to stop firing to let it regen. 1 point hardly does anything other than save ammo consumption, rather than prevent reloading.

You and I play very differently haha. I would never use the extra points in matched set and iron bank.

To me this would be way more effective though you’d miss out on SftR. If you really want SftR, I’d maybe do something similar to yours minus FitSD. But it’d really only be good for boss cheesing because you completely wreck using anointments. It’s totally useless if you have ammo regen and you’re proccing anointments on your SMGs and ARs.

I’d actually maybe take EM over Specialist Bear in mine too. Depends if I’m using Iron Bear much.

#31

Actually, as it stands now this is my build (well, 2/5 in Phalanx, because adulting has gotten in the way of more important things and I only just downloaded the patch… Actually probably should be working right now).

I got a bloodletter really early in my first playthrough so I just got used to running a 1hp build and it kinda feels “right” to me right now. I’m actually toying with going 3/5 (or 5/5 if I can scrape up 2 points somewhere else) in Selfless Vengeance. I want to see how that synergizes with Short Fuse since (I believe) it’s multiplicative and I know it has no downside on 1hp. I’m just worried it won’t amount to much without Stoke The Embers boosting fire damage.

I will run with an Otto Idol (instead of a Deathless) and a Blast Master on occasion with this build too, and it works fine as long as you don’t spray & pray. Obviously SV wouldn’t allow for the flexibility, which is why I’m tentatively specc’d into PD in the link.