Someone should post a link of the thread in the hotfix thread
the whole point of that skill row is one kill skill for high damage low RoF guns and one for low damage high RoF guns. changing one to be good for either weapon would break it, simple as that. all you need to do is give a small buff to violent violence.
good post otherwise. id like a buff to drone delivery 
one grenade every 15 feels ■■■■
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I had some ideas for Cold Warrior, Techspert, and Shockerator.
- Cold Warrior could give Cryo Resistance and immunity to slow from Cryo damage. Killing a frozen enemy would have a high chance to freeze a nearby enemy. Geared toward mobbing.
- Techspert would be like FL4K’s Bounty Hunter COM. Dealing gun damage has a chance to refund Zane’s action skills, meaning he can activate the action skills once again. Doing so would cause the existing ones to despawn. Or not (seems op). This would be a way for him to proc ASE annointments.
- Shockerator stays the same except the damage debuffs enemies, making them take more damage.
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One issue you missed: blowing up DoppleBanger and picking up the barrier takes way too much time!
Both of them consume about 1/5 of the action skill’s duration, and you can hardly do anything in those actions. You can’t reload or swap weapons, and even though you can shoot it’s hard to aim properly.
Dopplebanger is good for activating seeing red and terror effects with a relatively short cool down, even though not many people use it. I think reduce the button pressing time will help a lot. And it won’t lead to unintended activation because if people don’t use it they won’t equip it at all.
I’ve seen some one mentioning they hope to activate but not drop down the barrier by holding down the button, and I can’t agree more as long as they don’t make the time too long.
Love em all. The techspert one is good because it might allow people to not have to spec into CCC or Good Misfortune and focus on Damage.
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Hey ThiccFilA, these are some pretty good suggestions, but there’s a couple things I disagree with, and/or things I would add.
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Agreed. Violent momentum should scale a bit better. Personally however, my biggest gripe with a speed build is that the cryo status effect completely shuts it down. I feel like I can get pretty decent damage up until some maliwan soldier freezes me and I can’t even slide. I would like to see "gain resistance to the cryo status effect" --20/40/60/80/100% --added to something like violent speed. Better scaling isn’t gonna help much if half the time you can’t make use of that scaling.
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Agreed that Almighty ordinance needs a change, but I think your idea is probably unlikely. They would rather just tweak some numbers here and there before they completely change an augment. Personally, I like the idea of making it debuff the enemies it hits so they take more damage, like with Moze’s rocket pod augment. Regardless, it should be on like a 15-30 second cooldown, not just once per activation, so it’s actually useful with CCC.
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Pretty good. Couple thoughts though. Clone doesn’t need DTM cause it already has fractal frags. I don’t know about salvation; 20% might be too much. Otherwise, I think a better way to improve survivability for non-barriers would be buffing like a ghost; maybe make the stacking effect last for the duration of your action skills. Also, I don’t necessarily think the drone needs a lot more damage. It seems like its more meant for utility, so maybe buff those aspects more.
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Honestly, hard disagree with this one. The only reason Digital Distribution isn’t great is because the clone dies too fast. It helps a lot with your survivability in a clone/drone build, so I’d hate to see it go. And again, they would much rather tweak some numbers than completely change it. Your idea is cool, but unlikely to be implemented. Maybe all they really need to do is give the clone more health. Suddenly, you’re taking 75% less damage, and your clone lasts for more than 3 seconds.
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Agreed. This would definitely help. But I think an even better way to make it more useful would be for it to activate your kill skills when you go into FFYL. Because that’s one of the most impactful times when you probably don’t have your kill skills. Also “seein red” just sounds like it should activate while you’re close to dying, ya know.
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Hm. Making it timed might make it just a little broken imo, but it’s at least something they could look into. Personally, I like the idea of it stacking more shots with each kill.
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Yeah, pretty much. One caveat though, maybe the barrier augments shouldn’t keep their full effect, like how the damage amp is cut in half when you pick it up. Otherwise, there’s no incentive to ever drop it.
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- Enemies don’t always have cryo weapons, I wouldn’t say this skill becomes useless half the time that’s just not true. Although I do agree that adding some cryo resistance on violent speed would actually make that skill better than it is.
- This idea is my favorite lol so we have to agree to disagree, I think it’s an easy thing for them to change this as well, the rockets are just flavorless imo and they’ll end up being “too good” or mediocre at best. And I really think if you get a kill with these, then you should be allowed to use them again - not a timer.
- Salvation should get a buff. People like Killer6 want salvation buffed to 100% just fyi. I think 20% is perfectly reasonable. Like a ghost and damage reduction effects will never be better than pure sustain. There’s something called health gate in this game and it’s there because enemies can kill you 50 times over, so being able to sustain above health gate over and over is where survivability comes in. I’m not saying the drone needs a pure damage buff, I’m saying these “utility” skills are useless because they don’t provide damage. Bad dose gives 2% fire rate, and I forget exactly how much movement speed but it’s another number under 10% - yet it seems like the skill I want to take most of the time because it’s at least something I’m getting. And with the shock effect, how is it supposed to reasonably replenish my shields with 100/DOT. The damage needs buffed. Like I’m not asking for ridiculous numbers, I’m asking to change ridiculously low numbers.
- My idea was to mostly show how much they missed the mark. This skill is not great either way, and there’s no way to really mess with it unless they were to just seriously buff the clones health in general, then it could be useful. I really think this augment should just be changed in general.
- I like your recommendation for seein red. I think the point we agree on is it needs something more. Maybe if it had half of deaths follows close built into it as well it would be better.
- I actually like the stacking option better as well with more thought into it. But this is Zane’s highest DPS damage skill available, and flak’s two fang is unconditional but at 25% yet it’s still better.
- The barrier augments should just not get cut in half at all. Some should work some shouldn’t, but there’s still many reasons to not pick up the barrier, most players just don’t understand that. You can protect yourself, allies, your clone. The barrier is straight up safer placed on the ground, tink dynamite can’t get through it. If you’re using detainment field you can play inside and out of the barrier - getting the amp no matter which side you’re shooting through, and enemies are staggered the entire time trying to chase you. There’s more than one reason not to keep the barrier on the ground and I think it’s dumb that if I want to play barrier drone, I’m basically stuck picking all-rounder, detainment field, or wasting an augment. At least let 1 earlier augment like charged relay work while picked up.
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I appreciate the response. Those are all fair points 
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I would use the barrier down more often if picking it up and down was not such a bother, and staying in one place is a big no no with how I like to play. And not too friendly with VM.
Where’s gearbox, I need them to read my almighty ordnance suggestion, I would love to be able to launch a couple nades at someone.
Your playing dirty change would theoretically double dps for the duration of using a mod that scales the percentage bonus to 100%. This skill is already, arguably one of Zane’s best skills. They could change other skills to open up more ways to play him like changing nerves of steel to provide a base critical hit damage bonus and an increase when at half health and a small bonus when in fight for your life.
Some of your suggestions are pretty good. I would add removal of condition of having to have full shields from all skills and balancing those skills to act as passives. Should make using a rough rider and infiltrator mod in general more viable with the barrier.
He needs some passive buffs in each of his skill trees. It doesn’t need to be OP, anything to help him would be great.
The timer is probably not as good a buff as just being able to stack. You’re comparing zane’s best skill to zane’s other skills. Lets compare it to a very similar skill on another vault hunter. I believe it’s called two fang on flak, it straight up gives a 25% chance to fire additional projectiles. No trigger, no cooldown, no requirements. Just straight up 25% chance. And imo that’s better than playing dirty. All I’m saying is give us slightly less hoops to jump through.
I know about Fl4k’s ability, with mods my Fl4k gets 40% chance with no strings.
If you are stringing kills along in a slaughter shaft Zane’s skill is guaranteed (assuming you are also using a mod) for the first five shots. Depending on the weapon you are using, I think Zane’s skill is actually better. Someone with math skills can check me here, and if I am wrong and the math bears it out then I stand corrected. The point is the skill is probably fine as is and I would hope GBX looks at the other skills first.
Regardless you bring good points to the table and if GBX does improve the skill further I won’t complain.
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Can we make his Praemunitus skill work like the item card says? it says %25 magsize but its actually %24.9 and that 0.1 makes it so you cant have extra 1 magsize on 4 magsize guns such as scourge, duc…
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edit- Had some ■■■■ about Digital Distribution here:
Hmm I’m going to strike this. I did some more testing and now I’m getting different results. Not sure if it’s because of the damage I’m using to test it this time (a fire puddle).
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Imagine you use a single Scourge rocket to clear 4-5 trash mobs and get 20 shots double projectile. I think it should be a guarantee chance to fire double projectiles which add extra shot with each skill level. That will remove the use of COM boosting so you can put it somewhere else instead of just adding as many point as possible into it as right now. Or let it stacks and add a cap to it otherwise people will just stack it to the end of time. If you want Old-U better in term of survivability, make Zane swap to the clone location when use the skill so you won’t get “double tap” from the enemies who still firing at you.
Yeah, and if you’re using the right weapon–scourge, hive, one pump chump, etc.–the way the skill currently works theoretically doubles your dps literally all the time, as long as you kill someone in less than 5 shots.
I understand the concern of making it OP or broken, or changing it in an unnecessary way, but it’s not like it doesn’t already double your dps. As far as I can tell, making it timed instead of a few shots wouldn’t change how strong it is; it would just make it work for a wider variety of weapons.
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I don’t care what buff you want to give it exactly - the main point is Zane’s best raw dps skill is arguably worse than a mid tier skill on flak’s tree. Just give us less hoops to jump through, I am a person who loves Zane for figuring out the combo’s and I am not complaining about his power level at all, but I can very much see from a casual perspective why there was so much community hype saying he was weak. Because it’s not easy to jump through all the hoops, and then some hoops like violent momentum scaling aren’t even worth jumping through.
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Yes I just saw this reply, this is exactly how I feel. Makes it less annoying to jump through hoops, that’s probably the main focus of my post IMO.
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And when I suggest change Cold bore from 1 shot to 3s to be able to use it with more weapons, people say that it’s OP
Seem that 30% gun damage for Zane is too OP for Gearbox standard (VM was 30% before release) but not Amara’s personal space 33% (and now it’s 54%). Seriously for the effort Zane has to go through all his conditional skill, his ceiling should be higher than the others instead