A couple Quick Questions for Expeirenced HW2 Modders

Hi fellow modders 0/
the 1st thing I was wondering is if it was possible to make an upgrade or default ability/LUA, that Makes the players Research jobs faster. i know it can be done with build jobs. but what about research?

if this is possible How is it done, and can it be applied to say the individual research ships?
Example, the more research hubs HW1 races have, the faster their research.
im trying to fix that gap in the Remastered. having multiple research ships for HW1 is pointless.

If that cant be done, Is it possible have make it so i can have more than 1 research going at a time?
that was also a thing you could do in HW1 that HWR lacks…

The other question, i totally forgot how i did this back in the day, How do i make it so when missiles Die/hit shields/Run out of fuel, they explode, instead of turning into a small square and disappearing out of thin air (err space)?

Thanks in advance.

I thought having more research ships did speed up research? can someone confirm with 100% certainty? I’ll test when I get home regardless.

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it is confirmed and you can do it on your own in two steps:

  1. build one research ship and pick a research, measure the time it takes to be completed,
  2. restart the match and now build 6 research ships, then research the same technology you researched in step 1 and measure the time it takes to be completed

Researches get faster the more RS you have, having 6 research ships means a 60% saving in research time (beware, the RU required for the research will be burned faster)

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Sure, modding the time is easy, you can more importantly also mod what is researched and what dependency’s there are. Look in the .Big files under scripts and buildandresearch.

I believe the game calls a “miss” effect (instead of hit) to display when the missiles terminate. Reference the weapon specified in the ship file and from there, Start with the weaponfire files, I believe. You should end up with a branching tree of all the different files it calls.

ah, well the thing is each additional research ship should be increasing the speed by around 10%, but it doesn’t seem to take effect until the 6th ship is built.
it feels like the 1st one unlocks research (thats working as intended), and once the 6th ship is built it just gives like a 10-15% increase. it should actually be around 50% once all of them are done. i remember this very clearly back in my HW1 days, as my fighter/corv swarm rush strategy depended on out tech rushing my opponents, not just out combating them.

so how can i tweak/fix this?
ive added new research in the past, that i can do, but i don’t know how to make a research speed upgrade that affects the whole player, instead of 1 item.
i don’t know the 1st thing about that. and is their any way i can tie the triggering of the speed upgrade to how many Research Ships i have built, like 10% per ship after the 1st?

Edit: @ amsajuja,
wait can you confirm this is working? because it sure doesn’t feel like it is.

as for the missile thing, i see what you’re saying now, so just change all the “miss” effects to the Hit ones, and im good?
edit: got my missiles exploding when they hit shields or get shot down =)

Is it really only supposed to be 10% each one? I thought each one increased it 100%.

I did some timing testing (only took me 15minutes)

I tested capital chassis research with 2, 4 and 6 science vessels. It looks like they reduce the time by 10% each. I waited until each one was docked with the first science vessel before timing. Though the last two looks like they only reduced it by 5% each or the 6th one did nothing since I tested with 4 and 6.

Regardless each science vessel reduces the research time.

ok thank you. ied still like to edit the speed %'s on those ships if anyone knows how.
my issue might of been stuff was qued, and researching before they were all docked/assembled.

@innociv no its 10%, or at least it was in original HW1, if each one did 100% that would be insane, you could research Heavy cruiser in like 12 seconds.
amusing as that would be, it wouldn’t be very fair to the HW2 guys.

My assumption was always that each bay in HW1 contributed equally. But that means diminishing returns of a sort. In that model, going from 1 bay to 2 would make a 60 second research into a 30 second one, but if a research is going to take 60 seconds with 5 bays, going to 6 bays will only reduce it to 50 seconds. Additive stacking, not multiplicative.

Frankly, I assumed it was 100% because the HW1 research times are all 3-4x longer than HW1 ones.

I figured they were balanced around having 3-4 research vessels to get the same research speed. :confused:

HW2
Defense Frig = 60
Destroyer Tech = 90
BC Ions = 140

Defense Frig = 240
Guided Missile Dessie = 200
HC = 250(carrier)+330

Even if you took the time and money to get 6 research vessals, which would cost much more than research+adv research, and they gave 100% it’d still take 96 seconds for HC tech.

So yeah… I seriously saw the logic in assuming they were 100% each.
Part of it may be that HW2 have more to research, but the combined time of all hw1 vs all hw2, the hw1 is much longer, even with 6 stations, I believe

and no they arent, i think the reason they did that was to simulate the time it takes to build the moduls and ships needed to make the HW2 stuff like battlecruisers. if both research times were the same, the HW1 guys would have a massive advantage on HW2 players.

in any case. ied like to get multi research working. or atleast increase the Bonuses you get from multiple research ships.

doesnt seem like anyone knows how to edit the research ships code though.
i dont see anything obvious either, which is why i was asking here =P

i wonder how the devs did it… if youre watching, how did ya guys do it? =P

I calculated the cost/time of HW1 full research versus the modules+research.

HW2 is still twice as fast in most cases, and a bit cheaper. Especially cheaper if you make multiple research vessels.

I believe there was one thing that HW1 could get out faster, if they straight rushed it and didn’t go fighters/corvs, and that’s Destroyer.

I don’t think there was actually much thought that went into their balance…

Asymmetric balance is always a sob to balance. Sometimes they can’t get it right even after years of active balancing (I can think of a few examples). Considering they did not do a closed beta for MP I think the balance is pretty good. We’ll see what happens once they actively start with the balancing.

ya thats why im having talking so long on my mod, sooooo much work to do. im about to address the HW1 corvette AI. but other then that im almost done =)
ive got the game more or less fixed. just need to get multi research working or make the Research ships have high research modifiers.

i agree with Force user. Asymmetric balance can be/is a pain, (especially in a RTS) but it can be done. ive got it pretty close. the trick is to get the different races stuff popping out at around the same time, killing each other pretty evenly, it doesn’t have to be perfect but 12 corvette squads going against 12 shouldn’t result in 1 squad killed and the other guy obliterated. oh and also ignoring the User errors from people complaining nerf this or buff that. (also make sure your hard counters work)

HW2 is nice because you can specify what does what, to what, and how well it does it. good development is more than just damage/rate of fire buffing/nerfing, and ive had to get pretty creative when fixing Homeworld Remasted with my mod.

Kushan/Taiidan corvette attack AI is my current focus. after that, aside from some fine tuning, i think ill be done =)

Well making the game less asymmetric is probably the easiest way to balance asymmetry :wink:

lol like my sarcasm XD?

Heh well it’s a very fine line. One game in particular took asymmetry too far and it’s a mess, has been for the last 2 years, they’ve been unable to balance it at all. Part of the problem there is that balance changes only come every 3 or 6 months.

SC2 is often brought forth as the perfect example of balanced asymmetry but what’s really happening is that they just change the meta every 2 weeks. That way no one race is the best for more than a week once everyone figures out the new best units and then it changes again.

So asymmetry is great to make a game interesting but too much without regular balance updates makes it horribly frustrating for everyone. You’ll hear how a lot of HW1 fans are saying how great HW1 multiplayer was. Interestingly there was almost no differences between the two races except for very slight differentiators, like turret placement. HW2 had somewhat asymmetric races (but no balancing after the game launched) so yea GBX has an interesting job ahead of them.

I think a certain amount of reduction in asymmetry is needed (Even SC’s resource harvesting is identical between races FYI) and they’ll have to be prepared for some heat from the community as their favorite tactics and strats and cheeses are changed and certain things are homogenized. This has already happened with everyone crying over no more battle balls or corvette walls.

Yes. And if it’s too assymetrical, it can simply be impossible.

Putting HW1 and HW2 together while keeping them the same would be like putting Quake and CoD together. And the CoD side can’t even use the jump platforms or teleporters.

ya formations are totally useless. i miss battle balls. and corvette walls too. but if they had that stuff in HWR the HW2/COD guys would get slaughtered by the “quake guys”.

alot needs to be done though, the strike craft for the HW1 races are totally useless (Defends aside that is). and the assaults are bugged. the gravity wells aren’t affecting vaygr corvettes at all… salvage corvettes are getting stuck in wells (they never did before). HW1 resource collectors cant hyperspace… the game is a mess at the moment. lets not even go into the multiplayer and campaign bugs.

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