A D4sh of Fl4k S4dn3ss

Oh, of course. I’m well aware of that LOL, that’s the only reason I come down on the tree as hard as I do. Personally it doesn’t bug me much, but I know for most FL4Ks it’s a deal breaker.

It really would only take 1 or 2 more skills getting FL4K damage added. Considering GB added pet damage to 5 skills last year, they’ll hopefully do the same for FL4K damage in purple.

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@boombumr My only issue there is that the skills where the devs added AS damage or pet damage in the blue (Pack Tactics and Hive Mind), red (Grim Harvest), or green tree (FAF) - those all made sense.

Given the design of the purple tree, where do you add the Fl4k damage and how do you balance it? I think this is a more difficult problem than the one they tried to solve literally AN ENTIRE YEAR AGO!

SMH

Master tree is already a pet/survival tree, and it really speaks to the problems of it that they were building an “I’m you, but stronger” version. Particularly it seems to highlight that Fl4k always needed better pet multipliers.

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I find that to be the easy part.

Put it with Not Even a Challenge to encourage building around pet damage
Put some on Wooly Armor to incentivize keep your shield full
Put some on Keep them Safe to encourage active play with the pet

Any one of those spots would create an interesting play style that the other trees don’t have, and would also synergize with skills in all of the other trees.

Exactly. Purple is just Master tree with more pet damage at the expense of less everything else: less FL4K damage and less pet survivability/ less FL4K survivability depending on which one you focus the shield on.

Pretty much. The best part of purple for me is that Brawler Ward + terror anoint is a x8 multiplier on pet damage, not even considering Gamma Burst/crits. Having the option for OGT anoints is cool too. We gained 4 or 5 new multipliers between the patch and DLC. It took a $15 DLC for pets to finally have a damage formula! :rofl:

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Personally, I run a Deathless build that hypothetically COULD use purple instead of blue, but in practice, that version of the build is a far, far, inferior build for Fl4k than the red/blue/green variant of the build. I guess that is where I kind of sit on this issue right now.

Why do I want to invest in a tree that makes my build measurably worse in every way?

I don’t think this issue is isolated to my build.

I think an interesting place to add Fl4k damage would be Fuzzy Math. It is far enough down in the tree that adding damage would not be broken. Maybe add a % of crit damage also for each crit that procs Fuzzy Math? So you get crit damage and shields?

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There are some pretty good suggestions here

Combat Vet, Wooly Armor, Not Even a Challenge and Capacitance would be my best ideas for FL4K bonuses.

I think Combat Vet should offer a bonus Crit modifier when FL4K and their pet target the same enemy. Think this could help separate it from Who Rescued Who in terms of synergy and gameplay.

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@vCarpeDiemv I like the idea about Combat Veterinarian quite a bit. The problem is that the skill is called (and described as) “Combat Veterinarian,” which doesn’t have a damned thing to do with crit damage LOL.

Maybe add the healing AND crit damage to the skill and call it “Combat Critternarian”? Eh? Eh?

That seriously would be a fine, just fine change.

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In my mind it needs something so it isn’t simply a quirkier WRW2.0

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@vCarpeDiemv I mean, if we are aping a skill tree, let’s ape it, right? And I am joking. Totally understand your point.

But I still don’t understand why we need to pay more for Gearbox’s second at-bat. I kind of thought the ticket bought us the whole game, not just the first 3 innings. Hopefully that analogy makes sense.

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Tbh, the tree needs to add (nearly) as much damage as as Fl4ks other trees. Otherwise there is no reason to spec into it unless you want to make pets work. Most of Fl4k players are probably not too too much into pet builds though.
So, if Gbx wants to make this tree viable for all other Fl4k players, give us a reason to use it. Survivability is better in all other trees as pointed out by @boombumr (Dominance, Not my Circus, Red Fang) as well as damage.
So, purple conveys no sense to me. If you just want to try out something new, that’s cool. But you could also just buy some new socks to get that feeling. Would be cheaper than this DLC.

Please, Gbx re-read the feedback on the Trapper tree and put in some serious thought into the much needed re-work.

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I haven’t paid super close attention to it really, but my cool downs are also affected by having points in Eager to Impress from my Red F4ng, and passives in my gear to boost cool downs

But, when I run Snare with other mods, my cool downs are usually quite quick. I’ll have to play around with it more and see.

I understand the focus on skills and their weakness, but can we also talk about how incredibly boring and lacking in impact the Gravity Snare augments are? I like how the base AS works in the sense that it does feel like a snare of sorts, but…that’s it??? Forager is boring. Increasing the duration and radius is useful but also boring and it sucks that aug doesn’t have any other effects. Trap card is garbage even before you consider the fact that you go down purple to, y’know, avoid FFYL. The only interesting augment is Blind with Anger.

I can take being the ‘weakest’ VH (although I don’t know why FL4K specifically has to make this choice all of a sudden) but having a boring tree is awful. At the very least, give Trap Card some kind of second effect so that Gravity Snare has some options besides a confusion field.

I think the problem you run into there is that Fuzzy Math is already one of the few draws for non-pet builds to go deep into purple tree. Giving it another useful ability doesn’t help all the other redundant/low value skills littering the tree.

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It’s pretty weird that it’s the actual Trap of the Trapper tree and yet it only seems to synergize meaningfully with Not Even a Challenge.
Trap Card should have probably been a debuff, bonus damage to affected enemies.

You are right. Pretty blank augments. So boring I was immediately unimpressed with them at the reveal.
I haven’t really bothered ever since.
The confuse is a nice idea since it keeps his theme of taunts and damage. Only the damage part is completely missing in his augments snd skills.
Ammo augment could be nice if it were just a regular side effect.
It needs some sort of damage. Hell, freeze enemies upon going into ffyl or something.

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This is so far from the truth that it’s making me cringe. Heck, even if you’re only looking at cream of the crop metabuilds most characters had multiple choises, some even in raid boss killing but especially in the mobbing department that the game is 99 % about. Not to mention all the off set stuff that people took through some of the hardest content in the game, defying those “character roles”. They did have their strengths and weaknesses though, something that’s been flipped over it’s head in BL3 4th skill trees.

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Fl4k’s the only class who is weaker now than he was at the time of the game’s release, at least as far as his gun build is concerned.

And given how Moze, Zane and Amara have literally multifold the DPS they started out with, while also having much better survivability and stronger action skills/pets…how can Gearbox think this is an appropriate state of affairs?

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That part I don’t entirely agree with. LnT and GitM duration nerf aside, Gbx fixed a lot of stuff that wasn’t working since launch: Stalker card buff, St4ckbot stacking, RaR, the list goes on.

That, however, I agree 100% on.

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Really miss the old days when I could finish Graveward using Lyuda without reloading, even though it was pre-mayhem but still that was satisfying.

Honestly now we see other VHs got crazy dmg buffs it should be totally reasonable to revert the LnT and GitM nerfs.

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That, still, wouldn’t match the ludicrous power levels of Skag Den or Big Surplus or Commitment …
As @boombumr said: the purple tree could’ve kept the balance but is instead an assortment of missed opportunities.
I really hope Gbx listens here as they obviously did before and takes the purple tree back to the drawing board. And please, do so with not just pet players in mind. Directions and hints are scattered all around these forums.

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Honestly, the LnT nerf alone probably has a greater detrimental effect on Fl4k’s DPS than those given the shape of the current meta, and virtually all the guns which ‘work’ with LnT (Stagecoach, Bangstick, Brainstormer, Lump) have been powercrept to hell.

Imagine how much stronger we would be if Fl4k could fire a Monarch or Light Show endlessly.

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