A discussion on CDR

Hey all, it’s another one of these threads where I spend entirely too much effort thinking about something that doesn’t really matter, it’s been checks date a little over three years since the last one, so buckle up it’s not going to be that exciting.

Anyway, I was talking with icyflame a few days ago about new builds with the increased level cap, and like many people, I suspect, I was pretty excited about tossing quicken into my maya build. However he pointed out that because of how cdr is implemented you actually get rather little out of doing that, so I decided to investigate this.
My memory is a bit foggy on some bits of this so if I’ve gotten something wrong, don’t be that surprised.
Anyway, in this game, cooldown rate (and reload speed for that matter) are implemented as [base cd]/(1+cdr). I’ve already the liberty of making a chart that examines some common cases using the new level 90 gear 5/5 quicken:

build base bone binder siren quicken bone_binder bone_siren bone_quicken quicken_binder quicken_siren bone_quicken_binder bone_quicken_siren
cd 13.0000000 8.6092715 9.8484848 8.2278481 10.0000000 7.1038251 6.2200957 7.1823204 8.0246914 6.9148936 6.1032864 5.4393305
duration 5.0000000 7.5000000 10.0000000 7.5000000 7.5000000 10.0000000 7.5000000 7.5000000 10.0000000 7.5000000 10.0000000 7.5000000
uptime 0.2777778 0.4655704 0.5038168 0.4768612 0.4285714 0.5846645 0.5466434 0.5108184 0.5547945 0.5202952 0.6209913 0.5796281

Of course you are encouraged to examine the data an draw your own conclusions, but I’d like to take a moment to stroke my ego by offering mine: quicken is maybe worth taking if you’re not using one of the cdr coms (for example in a trickster or nurse build), as it knocks off nearly second and a half from the cooldown (~17% reduction in cd in builds that likely rely strongly on having pl up) and increases maximum expected uptime by ~5%. but it doesn’t really do much for you if you’re already using a cdr com and a bone, with only a decrease in cooldown of 0.78s (12.6%) for an increase in maximum expected uptime of ~3%, with the siren com. Obviously, these uptimes numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, especially for builds using the siren com, but I think they were worth including to balance out the cooldown numbers a bit. All in all I think there really is stiff competition for those last few points, you’ve got 50% dr vs bullets from kr, 15% hp and healing from elated from restoration, extra damage from minds eye or immolate or helios versus a 17% reduction in cooldown in the best case.

Now, you may have noticed that this isn’t in the maya section, so now, onto Axton:

build base bone soldier resourceful bone_reso soldier_reso bone_soldier bone_soldier_reso
cd 42.0000000 27.8145695 27.8145695 33.6000000 23.8636364 23.8636364 20.7920792 18.5022026
duration 20.0000000 20.0000000 20.0000000 20.0000000 20.0000000 20.0000000 20.0000000 20.0000000
uptime 0.3225806 0.4182825 0.4182825 0.3731343 0.4559585 0.4559585 0.4902913 0.5194508

I’m not much of an axton guy, but my understanding is that unlike maya, he is more dependent on uptime rather than cooldown. and beyond that I’m not super familiar with his skill tradeoffs. however for a build using the soldier com and a bone, you’re looking at a reduction of 2.3s (11%), an increase in maximum expected uptime of 3%, and for a build without a bone (torgue build for example) gains 4s (14%) by using resourceful, and 4% increase in uptime, neither of which seem particularly worth it in my opinion. In the best case (neither soldier nor bone), while you’ll see a gain of 8.4s (20%) on the cooldown, uptime gains only 5%.

For gaige, in addition to looking at the absolute reductions, i also relate the reduction to the number of upshot robot procs you would have to get to reach the same level of uptime, this is rounded up, sometimes quite aggressively. mech10 and mech6 refer to the number of total ranks you have in 20%cooler with the mecromancer mod. Also I didn’t include the roboteer mod because it’s bad.

build base bone cooler mech6 mech10 bone_cooler bone_mech6 bone_mech10
cd 60.0 39.7350993 46.1538462 32.0855615 28.4360190 33.1491713 25.210084 22.9007634
duration 60.0 60.0000000 60.0000000 60.0000000 60.0000000 60.0000000 60.000000 60.0000000
uptime 0.5 0.6015936 0.5652174 0.6515679 0.6784566 0.6441281 0.704142 0.7237569
upshot_eq 0.0 5.0000000 3.0000000 6.0000000 7.0000000 6.0000000 7.000000 8.0000000

All in all I think the real takeaway from this chart is that you should be taking upshot, but that’s nothing new really. Looking at the mechromancer builds, I’m not really seeing any compelling reasons to take more than one rank in 20% cooler, the extra 4 ranks give you just 2.7% increased uptime, only one pretty aggressively rounded upshot proc difference without a bone, with a bone is a dismal 2%. If you’re doing something that’s frankly probably more effective overall with the extra points, using a catalyst or necro com for example, you’re looking at a more respectable 4% uptime gain with bone. Realistically, upshot robot should take care of most of your action skill issues with gaige, but maybe it’s worth taking cooler if you’re using neither mechromancer nor a bone (like in a melee build i guess?) just to cut down on downtime.

I’m not including any of the others for reasons that i hope are obvious.
If you made it to the end of this I thank you, I hope you’ve found it interesting or at least a little bit intelligible.


Well, thanks for the analysis. Came to the discussion 'cause, my username! Took a few minutes to figure what CDR means (even went to the Maya skill tree, looking through for CDR) .

Anyway, CDR is the official U.S. military abbreviation for Commander.

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lol. wonder what your reaction seeing it. like “oh there is a discussion about me”

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