A few turret test results (double up changes turret damage type from None to Slag - much worse damage modifier vs slag on UVHM)

Default Turret Bullet damage type is None (regular ammo).
I will edit in the damage scaling formula later . (it is 923.498 for lvl 34 axton ; 1147.906 / 35; 1415.057 / 36; 1465.762/ 37 o_O missing something ?). Measured ROF in game seems slightly less than 5 bullets per second or 300 RPM. ~1.2 second pauses between bursts.

Scorched Earth rocket damage type is explosive. The ROF of the missile launcher is (to test - but it seems not quite 1 per bullet burst).

Since the damage type is explosive it can benefit from own double up provided slagging.

Impact damage per missile pod = ModifiedScaledBulletDamage * 1.2
I said modified since Either Scorched earth or Double Up LOWER turret bullet damage by 1/1.15 and if you take them both the reduction to bullet damage is 1/1.3 .

Double Up - CHANGES the turret’s bullet damage type from NONE TO SLAG. Which means on UVHM the turret’s bullet damage will get boosted by Slag vs Slag modifier 150% instead of None vs Slag 300%. (you’ll have to slag for your turret AND YOURSELF via other means) … It DOES FIRE DOUBLE the number of bullets per same length of time (doubles gun ROF). 30% chance to slag vs on level enemies per bullet.

Double up provides a lazy way to slag for gun centric Axton but at the cost of potential turret DPS output.

You can’t really just toss your turret down and let it kill everything in UVHM like you could in NVHM/TVHM. The slag it provides is way more useful than the damage the turret does

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1 656.313 / 1 465.762 = 1.13
between the base turret bullet damage for axton 37 and 38 . Nice 13% but since the previous numbers don’t seem to match this … There might be other factors to turret bullet damage ?

1 871.633 / 1 656.313 = 1.12999 // 39/38 also encouraging

1 871.633 - (15.92800 * (1.13^39)) = 0.00065
is turret scaled damage per bullet =15.928 * 1.13 ^ (axton’s)Level ? ?!

EDIT: I’ll start a new Axton at some point to do this properly …



Double Up is amazing through TVHM. At 31 with Sentry/Scorched Earth/ Double up, the turret lays down some real damage. By 42 you can add Longbow to drastically increase its survivability and begin to toss it around tactically as a distraction.

But once you hit UVHM, I don’t think Double Up is a very good way to build for leveling. Slag becomes much more important for general mobbing and I don’t think Double Up is reliable enough (especially without Gemini). Your Turret will often get focused on a mob you can’t get an angle on or a mob on the back line while several others charge you. 57 is the first level you could grab both Double Up and Gemini, which does help a lot. But without Longbow you lose your ability to place them tactically to separate groups or distract certain mobs. You also have to pick up several middle of the road survival skills and forego several damage skills to make it happen. So I’m not a huge fan of that setup at that level. Obviously that build comes together at 72.

I actually prefer to dump Double Up at the beginning of a UVHM playthrough and instead build to pick up Sentry/Scorched Earth/Longbow/Phalanx Shield so that I can continue using turrets as tactical distraction while I do the slagging myself with Grog/Fastball or DPUH/Magic Missile, etc…

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This is a playstyle thing, when i play Axton he’s mobile and can normally survive long enough to get to the back line if needed

This is just wrong.
Ready, great dps skill.
Sentry, great turret dps skill.
Onslaught, dps and movement speed.
Grenadire, more grenades which Axton can be very powerful with.
Scorched earth, great turret dps skill

Then you have willing and able which are 2 of the better survival skills in the game

Small thing, but this is actually pretty weak in UVHM and especially OP lvls

And double up is free 3× damage in UVHM without having to swap weapons or use slag grenades, even if it isn’t the most reliable slagger


The “it” in “to make it happen” refers directly to the topic of speccing into both Double Up and Gemini at 57 from two sentences earlier. So that’s a 26/0/26 build. The heavily implied alternative being pulling some points out of Guerilla and Survival to put in Gunpowder such that you have 11/11/11 minimum. That leaves an extra 19 points to spend among the 3, allowing you to pick up every skill you mentioned if you want. If you compare those two options at that level, the latter affords you more points to spend in damage skills, the former requires you to pick up more survival skills because you have to go deep in the Survival tree. That’s not wrong, it’s a fact.

I’m not talking about OP levels (and neither is the OP, he is referencing damage numbers at ~37). I’m specifically talking about leveling through UVHM.

A lot of players who have hundreds of hours in the game seem to get stuck in the mentality that “builds” really don’t matter prior to 72 and you should just put your points into the skills you want to end up with at 72. That mentality makes sense for them because they’ve spent way more time at 72 than they did leveling. I’m not implying you are one of those players, and in fact I didn’t actually disagree with anything you said in your first post. But that has been a trend on the forums for a loong time.

Respeccing is cheap. And for a lot of players who are coming back to the game to get a few playthroughs in before BL3 drops, swapping a few points around here and there to try to optimize each level is fun. I just want to make sure these players are getting information relevant to them. In this case that information is:
If you take Double Up at the start of UVHM, you’re probably going to want a second source of slag. And if you have to carry your own gear source anyway, leaning into the concept can provide better results at that level.