I was considering that being the case. Multiple characters can get up there though or shoot whoever’s up there. In fact, all characters barring Ambra IIRC can get on top of the rafters overlooking the B lane.
Gotcha. My bad.
Come to think of it, I think I may’ve seen one of those glitches being used on Monuments in a 10-man a while back. Didn’t know there were more of them. Good call.
Generally doesn’t mean always. Looking beyond that though, Toby’s not the only one capable of outsniping his counters. Marquis & Thorn can outsnipe Benedict while ISIC can outsnipe Mellka (albeit a soft counter). Toby’s no different in that sense.
The Forcefield’s defensive properties is barely worth mentioning pre-level 8. Because while some may’ve forgotten it, it was indirectly nerfed when they introduced the attacker bonus. It applies to enemy deployables as well, so an attacker destroys it easier than they used to.
I’m pretty sure this comes down to our definitions of “cheese positions”, but I can only think of one spot which may or may not be cheesy. And it’s generally not a great one anyway.
It wasn’t too much of an issue, if at all, before Toby got nerfed and OM got buffed.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I assume it’s due to map manipulation. There are numerous characters which can use the map to their advantage. Melka, Thorn, Caldarius, Whiskey Foxtrot, El Dragòn, Deande, Kid Ultra, Ernest, Phoebe and probably some other character(s) I’m forgetting can all utilise/exploit the map in varying degrees.
Instinctively, I’d say just a straight up base damage increase. However, redistribute her base damage output to be more favourable for sniping to emphasise her role as a sniper rather than a skirmisher. The latter is arguably more a change to align her playstyle more towards her concept as a character. Beyond that, her helixes are fine for the most part. Some helixes, such as L9 & R10, could in my opinion use some love/redesign, but those aren’t her problem.
I’d say it’s an AoE. Same goes with Thorn’s & Beatrix’s penetrating shots. The AoE is from the character firing the shot, the width of the projectile (alt. its hitbox), which then stretches to when it collides with map geometry. It’s not an AoE when Heartpiercer isn’t in play, because then it can only ever hit one target at a time regardless of circumstance. But when it’'s in play, it certainly is. Same reasoning applies to Thorn’s penetrating arrows for instance. The main difference is arguably the substantially larger projectile size of Toby’s projectiles.
What AoE capabilities, without Heartpiercer, are you referring to?
Personally, I honestly feel like he dropped from a mid A-tier character to bottom B-tier, if not top C-tier. That’s quite a significant drop, and anyone who has a main who falls that much in rating is likely to get upset. That’s obviously my own perception of him pre- and post-nerf though.
Agreed with Whiskey. Beatrix is a counter for sure. Reyna’s a bit iffy. She can kill the forcefield rather quickly if she’s within range to not have her damage fall off, her priority target slow is brutal and her ultimate blocks railgun shots and the mine. She doesn’t have enough direct counter play against Toby specifically to warrant considering her as a full on counter imo. She lacks damage to harass enough, and Toby’s ultimate penetrates her Photonic Ward.
Ghalt, as a character on his own, counter big bodies due to his shotgun being effective against them. You could also make the case he counters dive-centric characters due to his hook being a hard CC, allowing him to interrupt skills as well as placements of traps which’ll slow and damage enemies.
I think it primarily comes from the company on some level. I don’t consider myself competitive minded nor skilled enough to be classified as a competitive player, but have just ended up running with it since I don’t have to make a speech about my philosophy regarding the subject.
I think it’s a combination of all of those.
A month ago or so, I went up against a random, low level Toby, which was already unusual. What was strange was that this low level had decent positioning right off the bat. But he was still getting bullied to no end.
He was in lane, he got bullied.
He was on the perch, he got bullied.
He was by the supply station, he got bullied.
He was behind the sentry, he got bullied.
It was on Overgrowth, and I can’t remember our comp. But the point is that he didn’t do anything blatantly wrong, yet he got bullied so hard and was borderline feeding. Combine that with his current low damage output, primarily in the early levels, and you got a character most never wants to play. Who’d wanna play a big, bulky, awkward and relatively weak character, let alone trying to get better with that character?
Another short example was one from a few days ago when the opposing team had a low level on Toby on Monuments. He was extremely cautious going into the game, staying up by the giant shard perch and sniping down lane. When their team pushed to our stairs, the Toby followed. As soon as he got up to the choke in lane, he more or less instantly died from full health.
One can’t blame them for not picking up Toby given how rough it is playing him, especially now when it’s difficult to see his appealing prospect. He went from being a High Risk-High Reward character to being High Risk-Mediocre Reward.
Tobys feeds the hardest of all ranges to my experience next to Montana. Melees are generally worse since they’re, well, melee.
I never quite understood that to be honest. Okay, he wrecks big characters. But my attitude’s always been that if I’m in a position where he can pull me, I’m out of position. That’s purely on me at that point.
As the OP, I approve.