A game with or without "heals" and "healers"?

I would like a less casual approach.

All games now tend to be spam and random pushing due to heals and some too good self centered heros ( alani on top of em ).

Reyna to me is what a support should be:

-low/medium dmg
-medium cd on support and boosting skills

Characters like Miko and Alani should totally change ( Ambra and Kleese too need a rework ) into support mechanics instead healings.

Would be nice if players could play with more tactic and strategy instead rushing and avoid mechanics like:

-a cover
-turrets and healing center
-recall if needed
-healt regen items to add sustain to many heroes
-more cooperative approach

I don’t see any goods by allowing characters like Miko and Alani ( also ambra with healing suns, and kleese with healing aura, will need some little fixes ) to exist.

A support could change the entire gameplay but still should be not necessary needed.
An healer is 100% needed and tends to ruin the game.

We are pretty lucky that only 2 healers exist ( and alani is pretty new ) so it would be easy to return to supports only.

What about you?
Do you prefer a careless game or a more strategic one?

I like the more strategic one, but the healers are part of that. I disagree with your statement about healers making the game more careless and less strategic.

I think the issue is more that healers make the flow of the game different to what you want it to be. I prefer the flow that it has now.

I also think if you start playing in pre-made teams with people who work together that your opinion might change. I have 3 mates I play with, and when the 4 of us are together in a game, we strategise a lot (and hardly ever lose)

I usually play premade with 2 friends.

almost always Reyna, Thorn and Miko.
Actually we have won all the games ( we have lost by playing in 5men premade or soloq ) or just 1 out of X.

Against a party with a healer could be a challenge ( a boring one, expecially with Alani now ), but against a party with no healers is always a faceroll.

That’s why, to me, healers are ruining this game.

Umm, reyna can heal almost as well as miko though…but whatever. Healers are just a fact of the game. There are 5 of them and ideally you want one on your team, but it’s not totally necessary to win. The problem is just that it’s hard to focus down targets through healing when you’re playing solo queue with a bunch of dummies. Healers are just really good in solo queue because they can keep an unorganized team up and running.

Its a classed based hero team game, removing the healers would just take away so much of it the team work

Reyna heal as miko?
Are we playing different games?

Also, healers are not part of the game cause they were not meant at release ( they were meant as supports ).

We have a support category, but talking about healers we had only miko at release.
You can’t talk about a specific “hero class” when at release you have 1 out of 20.

Reyna, Miko, Ambra, Kleese were all meant to be support ( i see no sense in claiming that BB at release has various roles and state 1 role with 1 single hero. It’s senseless ).

Actually cause we have 5 supports, 2 of em healers.
Differences between healers and “supports” are way too many, and healers are simply better ( premades or not ).

Devs should make a choice about supports:

  1. Rework Reyna, Ambra and Kleese to be at a fair choice compared to Miko and Alani ( not the actual one, but the one after the incoming nerf )
  2. Rework Miko and Alani to be at the same level as Reyna, Ambra and Kleese.

i would prefer to have less heals, but also i could accept a 5 healers choice to play with.

GBX made the game, GBX implemented a couple of healing classes, Thus, Healers a part of the game. Find me an online hero-team game with no healers. Also you asked peoples opinions, no point making a topic on a public forum if your going to dismiss everyones opinion that inst yours

I find it extremely unlikely GBX is going to remove healers because you don’t like it

BB released.
find me some other healers except miko

25 heros at release.
5x class
miko is not a healer but counts as support.

standard supports are way underpower than healers ( which are part of supports ).

Is not to yell “healers need to be removed”.
It’s a “cause they fit in the same role, they should make a choice. Cause healers actually are way better than supports”.

And as said in the previous post, i only see 2 ways: nerf healers pair as supports or buff supports to match healers.

Actually alani 100% pick, miko more than 50%, other supports way under 50% ( a lot under tbh ).
But i know you can see the same as me, and you already know what i am talking about.

What you are saying is confusing. So who are the healers? If you go just by the icons on their description then miko, ambra, and alani are all 3 healers. BUT kleese gets an amazing heal at level 5, and reyna gets one on her legendary item & her lvl 4 helix.

And yes, Reyna can heal nearly as much as miko with her legendary item. Each shot heals around 85, which bumps to 120 at lvl 3, and by end game I’m usually healing for 200 per shot with my items. This combined with the healing helix at lvl 4 and the cooldown helix at lvl 5, allows Reyna to put out a ton of healing, while also being able to throw up protective barriers.

You shouldn’t sleep on ambra as a healer as well. She can put out a lot of healing with her sunspots, especially with her level 3 mutation. And she can do this all while clearing the minion line at the same time.

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So, except miko there aren’t any.

Ambra is a nerfed miko ( needs a trait to heal, heal less and has random static incredibly low heals ).
Kleese has an aura ( which don’t work for himself ) and shield recharge.
Reyna needs to go deeper than the 2 above to do something.

They are all good supports to me ( i prefer Reyna cause instant overhieldheal tbh ) but no healers as miko and Alani.

ps: if reyna could be usefull as miko, everybody will go with reyna instead miko. And don’t get me wrong, i’m not saying she sucks, but that miko is way better.

edit: also remember this “Shield is not a heal”. you can die due shield penetration cause you have not enough healt.

People go with miko because he’s easy and straightfoward. With Reyna, you have to be more careful early on and your team cant be dumb. She is probably the least effective support at carrying a bad team. But with a good team, Reyna can really be extremely useful, arguably better than Miko. Like I said, she can heal nearly as well as miko after the first few minutes of the game, and she helps on offense more than miko with long range snares and damage buffs…

Ambra was nerfed, but only to her damage capabilities. And she STILL puts out more damage than any other support not named Alani. Her healing is still pretty decent and is sufficient to keep a team healthy if played intelligently. Her healing does get much better at level 3 with her helix, but that takes like 2 minutes to get there with ambra and her minion clear abilities.

As you said, your team needs to play properly.
Which is why characters like miko and alani should not exist ( to me is something that was add to allow console players to play more easy ).

Reyna is good indeed, but have shields over heals ( and sometimes when low healt and with overshield you can be killed due to shield penetration. Is not that rare ).

And is a shot which cannot be spammed on every target, when miko can swap easy, from a target to another.

        Shield Booster
        
        Applies an overshield to target 

ally that blocks up to 255 damage over the next 8 seconds. While
applied, Plasma Pulse charges the target’s shield. Cooldown: 14 Seconds ( can be reduced to 8 if im right ).

in the end, i agree is up to your team play properly, but still i would prefer a “reyna” version of Miko and Alani ( just to avoid faceroll ).

Miko hands down and by far is a meta breaking healer in comparison to the others and even more godly as a support. Biosynthesis teamheal, shorter cds, increased link heal and camp heal is just insane. pair this with great damage and great stun or aoe slow miko by far excels reyna is the support sense.

The only real purpose of reyna is objective choking with her increased damage and bubble you can do considerable damage to targets in a short period of time thats not really the definition of a support but moreso a controller.

My only problem with healing characters thus far is it makes the point of recalling and the healing station redundant. Maybe if you could only use items at base or made the healing station max upgrade heal faster than miko than it would encourage a diversity other than premade pick miko& alani or die. Galil and marquis were once part of this Pick or die scenario when they were extremely unbalanced and didn’t allow much counterplay. Currently miko still offers very little counterplay since you still have to work past an entire team and minions to target them and death charging them is retarded and gets you easily into unequal exhanges. In any competitive game supports have to ride along with a beneficiary balance without being too costly to remove or ignore otherwise the game becomes broken. I’ll use league as a primary example since it is a moba and the most professionally played, supports in that game are ONE not focused to only healing healing and supporting are two entirely different concepts. Two any designated support as stated before such as a sona or soraka have to be reasonable that their heals can allow either the healer or the healed target to still be killed ‘REASONABLY’ saying well 5v1 them and they will die or LOCK THEM WITH CC is not a reasonable argument. This is why supports have been tweaked and tweaked and tweaked because it has to be fair to both teams risk and reward wise to play and play against the support.

Currently miko has no real risk of using versus using someone else such as a tank or non-healer. Since getting injured requires you to be healed and you will either lose exp going back or to a healing station that heals you significantly less than miko. Miko can also basicallly set up his own bases on the map with sniper coverage or tanks making it almost viably inaccessible to a team not exploiting the same tactic. Much similar to the Mar"cheese" tactic it is simply too advantageous currently than any other team comp. Healers make the game very whacky sometimes especially when two of them have a perma heal.

Yeah, but have you seen her legendary? In case you don’t know what her legendary does, it makes her plasma rifle heal teammates that have overshield on. These shots can heal for around 200 health each with the right setup. So a healing overshield (lvl 4 helix) followed by a volley of plasma rifle shots can heal around 2000 health over like 5 seconds. And your shield booster does drop to around 8 second cooldown so you can pretty much heal all day if you want. Not too shabby if you ask me.

My set up with her usually has a 0 cost shard generator so I can get her legendary about 2 minutes into the game.

You do make a good point with reyna, but gear can make alot of healers great like ambra too. But i still think a heal off CD that can be perma used is problematic. Besides that i must say your reyna build is quite simply genius and i’m glad i never happened across you on the battlefield, I most likely woulda got wrecked by that combo.

It seems your issue isn’t so much with Miko, but more with the way Miko is used at the lower skill level. When people start playing the game, and until they start understanding the different heroes and mechanics, Miko is by far the most obvious choice to use. Heck, you have him unlocked from the start.

Once you move up a few tiers though, when you start playing with and against skilled players, there are still Miko’s, he just isn’t there every game. I probably see a Miko one in four games at the moment. I would also rather have a skilled Reyna on my team than a skilled Miko. There is a reason why Miko’s damage is decent, he can’t heal and damage at the same time (excluding the use of his ulti). His heal is a slow heal, no burst to it, and he is squishy.

If you nerf the heal on Miko, I’m willing to bet that he would almost completely disappear in games (at least with higher skilled players).

When a hero is easy to use, he may seem OP. I used to think WF was way too weak. Now I prefer him to OM. WF is just much harder to play.

Would you care to qualify this statement to me, a PS4 player, and other console players, as to why we need this ‘to play more easy’ and presumably that PC players don’t need them?

Oh boy not the WF OM comparison :X… higher skill caps DO use miko and even better than beginners do who run around throwing kunai’s instead of healing their pusher or tank. It was High pro skilled players that mainly lead to galil and Isic getting nerfed due to the ‘pocket healing’ .

Sure it’s cool to see diversity when facing high level players, but trust me miko is defnitely a meta determining character and high skills players die to have one on their team simply. Reyna is far more situational vs specific types while miko is just the overall better pick in terms of support and healing. imo same thing with OM>WF, but thats a whole other can of worms i really dont want to get into.

Miko is a gateway to new players, a easy support character. What I’m seeing is you don’t want characters that can play withouth so much strategy and this is wrong, how you can bring new players if every choice you pick is hard to play? The developer will never do that, if you can’t sympathize with at least one from the start you don’t play, you say bad things about the game.
See the ones that are unlocked from the beginning, assault, melee, tank, sniper, healer, all of them simple and easy to play.

In case you didn’t know… When you heal someone… You are providing support. So a healer is a support character. Healers are fine. The only changes I think need to be made is Alani should do less dps. I love all of her skills and mechanics but her damage is too high in her auto attack. Ambra needs an increase in healing capabilities. Reyna is such a pain in the ass to go against if you know how to play her. Especially if she is paired with a shayne. Only the 2 changes I suggested should really be made but yeah… Healing is a SUPPORTIVE role.