A Parting Gift - You must be sick of these I'm leaving now threads

Now I’m back out of ban box, I just wanted to put forward my opinion in hope Gearbox would read it and take in some aspects of game I thought could have been big. This is not all negative and some aspects of this game are done extremely well and you deserved full credit for your accomplishments.

First off I loved the concept of the game and thought I was onto a game that would captivate my attention for a lengthy amount of time, sadly this did not eventuate to anything substantial. I have over 4 days played time (according to my XB profile) and 60 levels to show for it, so I did have some fun with the game, just no where near as long as I had anticipated. I actually got rid of the game a couple of weeks ago, but a recent conversation with someone prompted me to do this in hope that like Borderlands the game will continue to grow well past the honeymoon period.

The Positive
The PVE content/Episodes were great and this is where I spent most of my time. I can’t recall exact percentages (PVE vs PVP) and can no longer check since giving the game away but I spent very little time in PVP and would have under 100 pvp games played. Although the storyline was kind of shallow and simplistic, the challenging fight mechanics and character banter and general humour more than made for the lacking story. I’m use to shallow storylines anyway - I managed to enjoy Destiny :slight_smile:
The character uniqueness and variation also was fantastic! I did feel connected to favorite characters and can only think of one occasion where my 4 favourites were taken in a game that resulted in me pouting for the remainder of the game lol.
I thought the missions were engaging and kept you wanting to try different character combinations and strive for gold on every mission.
During this time I did manage complete every mission on Normal, Advanced and 90% of hardcore missions with gold or silver medals. In the end I got a little bored of doing the same missions over and over and needed something to break it up and attempted to move to PVP and Lore challenges, however this is where things became negative.

The Negative
Poor connections and Lag are the major downfall that I experienced can be seen in another thread, so I will move on from there as you are well aware of the problems.
Another issue I felt that hindered my experience was the excessively long queue times. I believe this issue was exasperated when the match making was altered early on in the piece, this could be a misconception as other factors could be at play and the time be purely coincidental.
Another problem is I feel the game is a little too moba-esk. If a player should leave, surely they can be replaced by an awaiting player which in turn should help the queue times and allow the game to not result in a game loss or surrender? The fact this game is a FPS with PVP that plays like a moba also makes it for a hard sell to other players, requiring a niche audience who enjoy both. Traditionally most FPS are action packed and fast paced. I felt at times PVP would border on tedious while attempting to take down another player. With most opposition preferring to run away before any substantial damage can be done. This was evident in the fact I had nearly 3 times as many assists than kills in what was very limited PVP play time.

This brings me to my next point, health pools, I felt they were entirely too large. This attributed to long and often frustrating PVP battles. I will admit do prefer fast paced killing, hence my love for traditional multiplayer FPS games, so this could be my own want and desire from a game if you did intend the game to be more like a traditional moba. I’m not talking COD TTK, where he/she who has the least lag and shoot first wins, but a middle of the road health pool where I have time to use my abilities but killing is not a tedious task of chasing someone wanting to be kited back and fourth but still giving a player the opportunity to run if wished for a short distance or time but not leg the entire map in the midst of a battle and come out unscathed. My frustration and opinion regarding this could be out of frustration of mis-registering hit markers from the lag too. The health pools also lead to faceroll moments in PVE, with certain characters almost being able to survive in circumstances that almost seem too easy even on advanced.

The scoring system in PVP I feel also tends to promote “hero” COD TDM play style rather than objective play. Significantly greater rewards/score for escorting minions, capturing points, damage done to objective etc should be the point of emphasis for PVP, not total player kills.

The scaling of difficulty in PVE with larger groups also seemed a little off (almost reverse compared to how I perceive group play) and it was a little surprising to see the game is significantly easier when playing solo as opposed to a full group (The Rendain fight on Advanced is a perfect example of this!). Missions as simple as The Archive could be failed purely because players do not DPS down the attacking mobs quickly enough, yet the same mission solo can be completed in a monotonous manner.

Lastly, the Lore Challenges, whilst some are extremely simple and easy to complete, others are painstakingly painful, particularly any that require any level of skill in a PVP match, purely because of the amount of lag experienced. I found it was also painful to complete the ones to kill specific characters. The odds of getting character X in a game from a list of 25 characters was already low, then add human probability, plus the very limited kills per game ( I think I only average about 10-12 or so? ), leads to a painstaking tasks that in some other games would be relatively straight forward.

I honestly do hope that some ( all would be nice :smile: ) ) of these issues are rectified and Battleborn does indeed endure the storm (but I fear targeting such a niche market may be hindering it’s growth) and that one day I would be back to purchase the game again, but in it’s current state the game had run it’s course and I had gotten everything out of the game. GLHF Gearbox.

EDIT: Not really aiming this at the community was just hoping it would be seen by Gearbox staff.
EDITED:

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Appreciate you taking the time to put down your thoughts in such detail, but if you want a faster-paced, low TTK shooter, there are plenty of options that fit that bill. I love it the way it is.

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Definitely disagree, but I’m part of that niche audience. I don’t want three second combat, I want an awesome long team fight that shows who’s dominant, going back and forth. Maybe that’s because I got bored of generic shooters, cool cartoony graphics or otherwise, after CoD 27493. I like the team based challenge, I don’t want a game where I can straight carry. That’s not the way it should be.
As for the lag, connection and dropping issues, apologies. I don’t have those, I hear depending upon where you are they can be hell.
Disconnects cannot be replaced, as someone would have to have picked that particular character, get bumped up in level, etc. However, there are plenty of conversations about that elsewhere and possible solutions that could be implemented.
Overall, I love this game. I’ve been stoked for it for two years. I would like some improvements, but I think they’re more or less going in the right direction with it. Hope you find something decent to play.

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The long TTK is an integral part of this game, if that bothers you then you aren’t the target audience.

Lag and matchmaking is getting better for me and I live in Western Australia aka Lagville.

The rest of your complaints are trivial at best.

Have fun getting bored with Overwatch, COD or whatever other low TTK game you think is better.

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I fail to see how WA would experience exasperated lag compared to EA when we have the same infrastructure and are connecting to a singular point outside of the country where the lowest achieve ping is in the high 200ms. The 15-20ms ping differential between WA and EA would hardly be noticeable with the modern netcode games use. Connecting to a local Server in Australia would be a different case but the chances of 2 opposing AU players connecting to that server under the current system are extremely low.
Matchmaking has never been an issue for me, matchmaking to another country has been the issue. FYI the lag issue remains on XB1 with constant connections to servers on the West Coast of America, particularly Boston for some reason.

See this THE worst part about this community, if anyone mentions a flaw or a dislike about the game, diehard BB advocates instantly jump on the offense at the defense of the game or tell you to go play Overwatch. Instead of engaging in intelligent conversation and demonstrating why your opinion differs, the best they can come up with is snide remarks.

I’m not wanting a 3 second COD style whoever shoots first fight either, but something without the frustration of seeing a character basically run away continually and survive. What’s wrong with more deaths? Should multiple people die, it provides for an opportunity for players to group up and make another push. In it’s current state players seem scattered and it almost encourages “Hero” solo play styles rather than a team effort as the suitability is too high and should you encounter multiple enemy players you can just run away. Lower health pools would result in more deaths when encountering multiple enemy players, hopefully discouraging solo players from straying too far from other team members which should encourage team play. After all BB is a FPS first and foremost, not a MOBA.

Have you got any links to these threads? I tried searching but found little info other than suggestions to penalize players, which I feel will be to the detriment of the player base. If a player has to or wants to leave mid game, why can’t they? Sometimes RL calls and should take precedence over gaming. Implementing a system to add new players would be rather simple (from a game play POV - not from a programming POV), something as simple adding a character select screen (I also don’t understand the not changing character thing) and taking the teams average level and applying it to the new joining player would be a simple solution.

Uhm, no. I expressed disagreement. I don’t play shooters. Don’t play MOBAs. I’ve never had any interest in them. To me, there’s something unique here that drew me to it in a way the other games in those genres never have. I’d like to preserve that.

To put a finer point on it, I have spent more time playing PvP in Battleborn than in every other game I have played since before shooters were even a genre.

It sounds like you would like to change certain aspects significantly, in a way that would lessen my enjoyment of it. As I said before, I appreciated the cogent way you expressed your thoughts, and in return I get dubbed a “fan boy”. Waiting on the intelligent conversation.

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Sorry I completely disagree. People mention flaws and dislikes of this game on this forum all the time without issue. Hell I created a thread that does just that: Battleborn Suggestion Megathread 2.0

But when someone makes yet another leaving thread asking GBX to fundamentally change the game into something it isn’t, then expect some more passionate disagreement. Bottom line is they are not going to change TTK. Therefore my comment stands that if you want a low TTK class-based shooter, go with Overwatch. This is not the game for you.

This thread begs to differ…

Forcing an enemy to leave the lane is a victory in Battleborn.

We call it giving up your G.O.A.T. (General Offensive Ability Time).

Don’t give up your goat!

I love Battleborn and can honestly say I agree with all of your ‘negative’ points, except maybe lag and disconnecting issues because it has never personally happened to me or my friends I play with, but going by how many people are talking about it I guess it must be an issue.

I particularly agree with the lore challenge point. I actually don’t believe there should be any PvP ‘Lore’ challenges, I’m fine with there being character specific PvP challenges which reward you with character rank XP and credits, but not for lore. Surely it makes sense that to unlock a character’s STORY you should play the STORY mode? Plus the players who would be most interested in a character’s backstory is much more likely to be the same player who enjoys playing the structured story than the mindless “Why are we even here doing this?” competitive modes.

I also strongly agree that health pools are too high (or damage dealt too low, I suppose) for PvP. As it stands a squishy character designed purely for straight up damage can use both normal skills and their ULTIMATE perfectly on someone standing stationary, not even a tank necessarily, and all this would still only bring them down to half health, this is also why any combo with a pocket healer is pretty much unbeatable unless you have a vast numbers advantage.

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Forcing an enemy to leave the lane is a victory in Battleborn

Very true.

This term isnt exactly the nicest thing to call someone when used the way you used it.

First warning to cut out the personal remarks. And no, that’s not just directed at you. Rather everyone. Keep it in mind.

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My apologies, I would have never deemed that to be offensive, terminology has been updated.

I actually like the ttk in this game bc it makes teamwork even more important and the lag n things like that are never an issue where I’m from on ps4 but I understand that it is in other parts of the world…but if your not havin fun with it anymore then that sucks but maybe you’ll give it another chance in a couple months if not then have fun with whatever game you decide to play(that is what games are supposed to be just fun)

Yes your response was, I disagree go play another game. There was no rebuttal as to why I was wrong, just your wrong, I like it, go away. I’m sorry I offended you by referring to you as a fan boy, my goal was not to offend anyway and didn’t think that terminology would offend anyone. I’m Aussie, we call people names (and a lot worse) all day long :slight_smile: . I do play FPS, with Destiny probably being my most played game in recent years. I’ve honestly have never enjoyed a MOBA as I found them tedious and too highly dependent on indepth team work and individual skills of each player in the group, which I feel isolates casual and solo gamers but that’s a different topic.
The thing that attracted me to BB was the Borderland series, an FPS, fantastic humour, great character mechanics and engaging content. Whilst BB does possess a lot of what Borderlands had to offer in the PVE content there isn’t enough content or reasons to continue grinding the story mode out simply for the sake of it once you have completed it a few times. The lag experienced in public groups also deterred me from continuing on playing it multiple times and finishing what lore challenges I could (I think I only got 4 characters done in the end).

The PVP content I feel conflicts two greatly contrasting audiences or genres and leaves you with a very unique and limited audience for the game to appeal. What I had hoped for a was basically a FPS with Battleborns unique characters, abilities, helix tree, gearing systems etc without the player restrictions/disconnections/non replacement of players and a game that was a little faster pace and a little less frustrating. I believe some of this could be achieved by discouraging players who want to “hero” solo play the game which I believe comes from the fact players can survive in a lot of circumstances they probably shouldn’t and kill enemy players whilst completing ignoring the objective. I’m not saying we should change the game completely and detract it from what it is at all.

I’ve participated in that thread and was one of the original people who pointed out the issue and the potential cause back in the beta. My point was WA is no worse off than EA. The entire oceanic region and possibly other areas are affected by this issue.

I’m not leaving, I left weeks ago, after writing my post, it did sound just like one so I added the title. I have to stress I am not asking to fundamentally change the game, it will still be Battleborn and never be COD or Overwatch or whatever you are wanting me to play. I’m not asking them to remove every unique aspect of the game, just make it a little more exciting and slightly faster pace and not encourage solo play by reducing the TTK and altering the scoring system.

I 100% agree with this, your logic behind the Lore challenges being story based is very true! It’s odd that the game is not like this now that you have brought this up, as even the character unlocks challenges are predominantly from PVE content with the exception of of Phoebe.

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I personally think it’s already exciting and fast paced with a high TTK. Most matches are over in less than half an hour, how much faster paced do you need?

Sorry I’m a little confused, how can a game have a high TTK and be fast paced? Games are indeed over in less than 30 mins. Some I found were over in less than 5 minutes because too many players decide to play solo hero and ignore the objective.

Not exactly, no. I thought simply that there might be others better suited to what you seem to be looking for, without having to overhaul this one. And you aren’t “wrong”. We don’t have to share the same opinion. Yours is no less valid than mine. I happen to love that TTK is considerably longer than many games (and in fact, get frustrated at times that it can actually be quite short). I’m curious if you find it dissimilar to playing the Borderlands games.

Right there with you on the humor and characters.

Ultimately, you may be right, that what they have created is a little too unique (by trying to appeal to contrasting audiences). I hope that’s not the case, as I am certainly enjoying my time with it.

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Quite easily. Being in the middle of a firefight in Battleborn is anything but slow paced.

You don’t need to be able to be one shotted by anyone to have a fast paced game.

Agreed.

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See I don’t consider being in constant firefights with no significant forward progression or regression fast paced. To me that is a tedious midfield battle. Another example of how slow TTK is frustrating is an example I experienced whilst playing Incursion on Overgrowth. Myself and another player peeled off to attack the midfield Thrall camp. Whilst there we encountered another player (might have been Kleese, can’t remember), solo, attempting the do the same. A battle ensued, the player then proceeded to mosey their way back through the midfield battle with significantly lowered health and behind the wall and survived. I would have expected them to have been killed in those circumstances.

Yes I find plenty dissimilar, the characters are significantly less hostile than BL, but Whiskey Foxtrot for example I feel is straight up BL (hostility and all) imo. BL had a wider open world feel obviously, where as BB is set in a finite area and story timeline. I’m not saying either is bad but it definitely differed. Honestly I would need to go back and play one of the games to remember what else I thought differed.