#7

the Vault Hunters should stick together IMO. We have lotsa power hungry corporations to deal with. Lilith’s actions should deff be apart of the story but not a dividing line. it would have to be done well to work. id love to be able to pick oldest, old or new VHs if i want.

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#8

Please quote it here if possible.

#9

I’d be happy for a civil war if it means I can get to kill Lilith. I’ve started to dislike the character and she seems to be the same “Power hungry sociopath” that lost Jack his handsome face. We’ve got to kill Nisha, Jack and Wilhelm and poor Roland was killed as well as Anthea. So maybe she can become the new bad guy? Killing Tiny Tina would also be fantastic

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#10

She’s not power hungry.

Jack manipulated the BL1 VHs to open the vault so that he could get the eridium inside of it. Lilith has never manipulated anyone to further herself. And before you bring up the Firehawk Cult, she never intended the cult to start, it just kinda happened.

Jack acts purely selfishly. When the Elpis was being attacked, he doesn’t want to save the moon to help people. He saves the moon because he wants the vault, and he wants everyone to worship him as a hero. Lilith helps save the moon because she wants civilians to be safe, and is not thinking about herself at all. When Lilith sends you to investigate the cult, she wants to make sure that they’re keeping the body burning among themselves, and away from civilians. When the cult is about to sacrifice Sanctuary civilians to her, she appears to save them, and has you kill them to keep them from being a future threat to civilians.

Jack kills anyone who doesn’t agree with him. If you listen to the echos in Opportunity, he kills someone for disagreeing about how Hyperion’s guns should be named. If Lilith were becoming Jack, she would have killed Brick and Mordecai for telling her not to execute Athena.

Her ordering Athena’s execution was an emotional outburst. Nothing else. Having an emotional outburst does not make one evil. Also, Athena’s still alive.

@SpiderTeo Anything I missed or that you want to add?

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#11

After all she’s done for the Vault Hunters in BL2, I wouldn’t say that she’s “evil”. Just over in her head.

Evil is when you massacre a train full of hundreds of civilians, moonshot a town and kill an architect’s children when he pointed out that your poorly-planned city was in the worst location possible.

Evil is NOT when you project your guilt onto Athena, but take your time to listen to her story. Jack would have her killed right away.

Mull it over, Slaytah. Mull it over.

(Also, Athena is in TFTB Ep 2. DIS GUNA B GR8.)

#12

I do agree that she’s not mentally stable enough to lead by herself, though. It needs to be more of a collective between her, Mordecai, and possibly Brick or Athena.

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Is Handsome Jack really a bad guy or did the effects of everything twist him?
#13

@ACNAero, dude, why you got to call me out like that?

Heheh, I do appreciate the nod, though.

You pretty much have it right there. I would add that Athena also hasn’t been doing herself any favors. The more I play TPS, the more I’m starting to dislike Athena. Back in the General Knoxx DLC, Athena appeals to the Vault Hunters with a sense of moral outrage over what Atlas has done, not just to herself but to Pandora as well. In TPS, she completely lacks that moral outrage. In fact, she stays on the job to the very end, for the sake of her professionalism, and also over a little grudge with Lilith because she sided with Moxxi when Moxxi tried to kill Jack (which would have inadvertently killed the TPS Vault Hunters as well).

In the first playthrough, even Mordecai asked why didn’t she just leave Jack’s employ after Elpis was saved. Again, she cites “Charlie Mike” and her new grudge with Ro, Lil, and Mox. Even after everything she has seen, how Jack purposely killed people out of expediency, how Jack began to enjoy and indulge in his new hobby of murder, how Jack has coveted weaponry to further his own ends, how Jack’s lies have been made more and more transparent, Athena would continue working for this guy despite Jack becoming the embodiment of everything she hated about Atlas Corp. It just doesn’t make sense!

And that’s why Lilith wanted to execute Athena. The former Lance assassin traded Atlas for Jack, and all those reasons she made to the original four Vault Hunters were completely ignored when she was working for Jack. At worst, Jack could have made Athena the new Hyperion top wet-work agent, as she was in Atlas. At best, she was just a merc looking for her pay day. In both cases and everywhere inbetween, Athena ignored the plights of others who didn’t deserve to suffer at Jack’s hand. All their friends who had died or suffered loss in the years since then, could still be alive had Athena not ignore her conscience.

Also, this is a nitpicky part, but the ECHOs in Opportunity reveal that Jack kills an employee’s children because said employee questioned whether families would want to live in Opportunity.

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#14

Yeah, I was mis-remembering.

And I’ll try to not call you out anymore :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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#15

As for the whole Vault Hunter Civil War idea? I’m against it. Whether or not you like the direction of the storytelling in the Borderlands franchise, a civil war among the surviving and remaining Vault Hunters just doesn’t make sense.

I would also note that the post referenced Marvel’s Civil War event arc as an inspiration. And my opinion of that Civil War arc is: what the ■■■■ were they thinking? Really? Iron Man wants to disagree with Captain America over the issue of privacy and individual freedom? Hey, Stark! Remember, when you are a drunken playboy who got so ■■■■■■ up that you had to get Rhodey to sub for you? Or how your (616) company failed because of your own personal issues? Now remember that time when Rogers punched Hitler in the jaw? How about anytime that Cap was leading the Avengers (including recruiting two former villains into heroes)? Who has a bit more credibility when it comes to constitutional issues? And also, why the ■■■■ do you want to go out of your way and start a fight with Cap? Not only is he right, but he’s also Captain mutha’ ■■■■’ America! It’s on par with pimp-slapping Mother Theresa and calling her a ho’. You just don’t do that!

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#16

“Pimp slapping Mother Theresa and calling her a ho’”. NOBODY DOES THAT AND LIVES! (She’s gonna pimp slap them with holiness FIRST.)

(Captain America is also my favourite Marvel superhero, HIGH FIVE.)

Also…yeah. Now that I think about it, I really don’t want the V-Hunters to split. If they do, it would be kind of confusing. And upsetting. I want them ALL to work as a team.

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#17

Lilith is emotionally unstable, not a villain in the making.

#18

Chaotic Neutral?

#19

I guess if you want to call her that

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#20

seems pretty obvious to me that the Eridians are coming back and probably want to enslave or destroy everyone from what that one said at the end of pre sequel. also seems like he might be a traitor to them or something. or maybe he’s just telling the VH’s because he likes toying with humans or something.

#21

I can see some in-fighting in BL3, but I thought the war was referring to the race that built the vaults coming and the war being with them.

The guardians were trying to stop us from setting in motion the events that would lead up to them being “called” and thus starting the war.

#22

I’d say more like Neutral Good, with very strong chaotic tendencies.

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#23

I’m not familiar with D&D terminology, so that’s why I said whatever

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#24

Right now, I think the “war” is ambiguous and uncertain until another game comes out. There was a post mentioned in the old forums that theorized (and hoped for) that the war could be between the Eridians and the Seraphs (from BL2 dlcs). That sounds like an interesting idea, but it is still only a theory.

Yes, the Eridian Guardians did protect the Vaults, and it wouldn’t be too far of a stretch to assume that the Eridians themselves also designed and constructed the Vaults. However, all of the guardians that we have encountered were revealed to mere constructs, alien automatons or robots for the most part, not living sentient beings. The only exception has been the Watcher, that red alien thing at the beginning and end of TPS. So far, the Watcher has been observed to be against Jack, and thus anyone wanting to control and misuse the Vaults, and to be on the side of the 1.0 and 2.0 Vault Hunters.

My theory is that the war would be between the Eridians + Vault Hunters and a currently unrevealed enemy that supposedly leaked information about the Vaults to Jack long before anyone knew anything about them.

2 Likes
#25

Wow.

This thread was an EXCELLENT read.

Thanks for staying civil, everyone!

Nothing to add at this point but looking forward to reading future thoughts!

#26

Either it will be a War between the corporations or between humans and eridians, that awake or something.