A suggestion about increasing the difficulty/revamping Mayhem Modes

Rather than increasing enemy stats (or in addition do doing so, but maybe not to the same degree), what if they added more mini-bosses/enemy variants?

Here I’m thinking things like Nogs. I hate them, but I love them. They force you to kill them as a priority unless you can chew through their buffs.

So I’m thinking that mayhem mode has, as options, extra:
Golaiths who will take off their own helmets
(once they’ve revamped them) Anointed
Maliwan “fast” troopers (forget the name, but the guys who run really fast) that leave “slide puddles” in their wake
A tank type that slams and stuns the Vault Hunter

Basically the idea is to add more of the challenging type of enemies, potentially at random (e.g. imagine at mayhem 4 you’re fighting a room full of Nogs and a heavy).

My hope is that this would create more of a “tactical fighting IN THE MOMENT” element as opposed to a “build one of these few viable mega builds with very specific gear” element.


Didn’t want to put this in the OP (too long), but some explanation.

I think they wanted mayhem mode to feel chaotic. That could be a good thing!

But Borderlands is a fast moving game, and to adapt to random MODIFIERS on the fly is not necessarily easy to do.

However, adapting to random CREATURES on the fly is something that, once you learn what those creatures are capable of, most will be able to do by shifting tactics. That, and, shifting tactics is more fun than simply doing bigger damage numbers.

The other thing I think this might help do is create stories. Bragging rights of “I can solo Maliwan Takedown on M4” is impressive, but not interesting.

“I fought a goliath that killed Deathward and it was even harder than the boss itself, but I beat it” is potentially an interesting story to read about.

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I mean, that’s how games like Left 4 Dead and Dying Light did it, although they are not looter shooters.

I think Mayhem mode just needs to be more random and chaotic. They obviously thought that too with the modifiers, but the way it was executed was frustrating since instead of changing the gameplay loop substantially it just ruined/super-buffed whatever build you were running.

Buffing a build that you are already running doesn’t feel good because it makes it difficult to test its actual efficacy and then when it’s not buffed anymore it feels like it is underperforming.

Nerfing a build randomly on spawn is a bad idea for obvious reasons.

Things that I would like to see:
random boss spawns (a la Witches / Tanks from L4D, Demolishers from DL, elites in PoE/Diablo)
anointeds have their immunity phases removed and can no longer teleport
enemy types spawning in maps where they wouldn’t normally
goliaths spawn already enraged
ammo chests become more rare (encouraging things like loot expander/ammo regen perks)
CoV sick skag pets on you

stuff that is random, exciting, and makes the game more difficult without just tweaking numbers basically

In direct response to your message: I don’t think any of this should happen in boss scenarios.


I really like your ideas!

I deeply remember witches in L4D, as well as Tanks. I don’t remember Dying Light well (but I’m sure others here do). You’ve got exactly the idea I’m going for here.

I agree. Boss fights should be different. Mini-boss fights, though, I’d say would be fair game (e.g. Chupacabrach).

I especially like the CoV sicking skag pets on you. Makes me think a bit of Guardians summoning more Eridian enemies. In M1, it could be normal skags or a bunch of mini skags. In M4 it could be corrosive badass skags.

And I misread ammo chests as loot chests. That’d encourage people to carry multiple weapon types for such situations.

Gearbox needs to think about “how to we make players play differently?” in a way that adds to versatility, not in a way that focuses everyone toward the same builds.

My thoughts are modifiers that actually are more bizarre and chaotic than just things like + damage, - damage, bonus health, etc.

All grenades leave lingering radioactive fart clouds
Slain enemies spawn exploding suicide penguins. Bonus points if the penguins say “Dood”
Health vials are replaced with booze causing drunkenness
Drunken projectiles. Everything shot has an erratic travel path rather than whatever was normal for that weapon.
Wooly Mammoths randomly fall from the sky and can crush anything they happen to land on. (Cause its fun to poke fun at Skyrim.)

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The main issue with the current system is how focused it is on reducing player stats and essentially just dragging fights out for longer than they should. Remove any of the ones involving reduction of damage and put stuff in that the player actually notices. I think also that the harder the modifier, the higher the drop chance should be (hell, allow us to add or subtract certain modifiers to our game so that there is a risk/reward mechanic). I love randomness as much as the next guy but in a min max rpg shooter like this there needs to be some consistency when getting to higher difficulties.