A thought on Takedowns

Hey folks, there’s been a lot of debate over the past year and a bit about raid bosses vs. Takedowns. I can see it both ways, but yesterday it struck me - would the Maliwan Takedown, one of the most popular pieces of content in the game, be as fun if it was only Wotan/the Valkyries and not the mobbing sections, simple story and build up to each fight? Stripped away from all that, it seems like they would weaker to me - and therefore raid bosses are strengthened be the encircling structure of a Takedown setting.

I can understand the desire for more endgame activities. Lord knows, we needs them. But my question is, how much of the longing for raid bosses outside of a Takedown setting a product of nostalgia from previous Borderlands games? In my opinion, those raid bosses we currently have are strengthened by the Takedown approach, not weakened by it.

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It would be nice to have Raid versions of Trial bosses.
And I hope third Takedown will be added soon.

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I would like it if there was a fast travel station before Wotan/raid bosses, so once you reach that you can choose to just do the raid boss over and over or run the complete takedown. Or even run just the level without the raid boss!

Also a big thing that keeps me from even starting them regulary is that they are tied to a quest, so once I feel like not playing them any more or fail to beat them I am stuck with them in my mission log. Which is just as annoying as being greeted with mission failed every single time you boot up Bl2 because of Digistruct Raid or the Badass Circle…

Edit: Also a fast travel after the mid-boss would make it so we could run them as two seperate mini trials.

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Personally I think that takedowns are much better than raids from the previous Borderlands games. On the other hand, to make an end game that is very repeatable and enjoyable, you need diversity. While I do think takedowns are far better to play through, sometimes I don’t have the urge to mob a bunch before I get to a boss and it lessens my desire to do said takedown. That’s where the addition of raids would fit in nicely. It’s one of the hardest boss fights in the game and it’s something you can just spawn directly at, making it much more farmable and friendly to players who don’t have the desire to spend the time and effort to do a takedown run. I do think when raids return to BL3 in DLC 6, they need to be reworked in terms of their mechanics and health pools as a lot of the BL2 raid bosses could only be killed with cheap tactics and by utilizing broken skills.

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Stylistically, I like the Takedown model better. I like the idea of running a map with an end boss as the primary target in mind. From a purely mechanical, farming standpoint though I can certainly understand wanting to just farm the boss and skip the mobs… not gonna lie, back in the BL2 days I would farm Hyperius for Norfleets and kill him over and over and over because it’s super easy to do, just walk back through the gate and no reloading the map even needed.

I guess I might feel differently if there was something in Wotan’s/Valks’/Anathema’s/Scourge’s loot pools that I really wanted. At one point I was all about Redistributors, but I’ve moved on and there’s nothing I really want from those bosses, so I just play that content for fun and don’t really care about the loot. (That said, I really think Scourge should drop a hell of a lot more loot. It’s a big slog getting to him and that bitty lootsplosion of his is underwhelming even if you’re not after anything in particular.)

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Like everything, GBX seems to dislike options :rofl:

Now, I do not dislike playing MTD at all :innocent: I love it for testing everything.

GTD on the other hand is just annoying… I don’t really mind the “platforming” part but I don’t really see any use in it (or rather the use of forcing you to repeat when things go wrong)

Then the crystal stages are where I drop it every attempt… Sure I could use my clone as distraction… But not going to…

And seeing that there’s nothing of value to me in the takedown, that’s an other reason not to bother. (not that I’m after any specific loot from MTD though haha)

But like everything in this game, it gets stale after a while (when you have no problems doing TTD without dying… Is there anything left?)

The Takedowns are the best content in BL3, especially the Maliwan Takedown. Fantastic map, plays slightly differently each time due to the random spawns and the fact that it is a mobbing map. The Guardian Takedown is much less fun for me due to the jumping puzzle stuff, but still a cool map and a good challenge.

I think GBX could basically create as many Takedowns as they wanted as add-on DLC content, and players would purchase it. Personally, I know I would pay for it. I would like to see a Digi Peak-type higher difficulty gatekeeping function added to BL3 as well. In other words, to play the higher difficulties, the player must beat/complete the map and bosses to progress to the higher difficulties. I liked that challenge. I did not like the re-gearing part of the Peak, so they can just remove that and give us more difficult enemies but not increase the gear.

TL;DR - Agree with adding more Takedowns. I personally prefer the addition of more challenging mobbing maps to a traditional BL-style arena raid boss. I think the content is more replay-able and has more life.

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It’s easily my favorite content in the game. Great map, great soundtrack, perfect length and challenge. I feel like Gearbox really nailed it with that one.

Guardian Takedown is just a bit too long for my personal tastes. If it was a little shorter I’d probably run it more. It’s a little more of a time investment. With Maliwan I know I can squeeze in a run before I need to head off to work heh.

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^^This is it

I like the Takedown format but it requires a bit of a time investment, especially for someone like me who is Actually Not That Good and cannot clear some parts consistently

Sometimes I want to get owned in 5 minutes instead of 15 lol

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What if we found a middle ground between BL2 Raid Bosses and Takedowns. Pay eridium to fast forward to mid/end boss, say 100E for a fast track to Valks and 250E to go straight to Wotan.

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Amazing idea that’ll most likely never make it into the game. It hurts so much seeing great ideas like this.

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While I wouldn’t mind to pay Eridium for the raid bosses I think it needs to be a bit more refined, paying 250E to go straight to Wotan would still respawn you all the way at the start if you fail which would not be the smoother way of just quitting and respawning in Terramorpheus area like in BL2. Although for my version to work it would have a respawn station as well, But this is a whole other topic.

Well in any case I feel like fast travel stations would still be the simplest way because after you finished the takedown once, you would have all the options of just the raid boss, doing everything, doing it in two smaller runs etc.

But sure, they could just again add some Eridium pedestal mechanic.

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There could be a pedestal at the starting area that would spawn you at the top of elevator by Valks, by the vendors where you drop to Anathema, last vendors by either Wotan or Scourge. It seems pretty simple to me.

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Yeah, à shame GBX doesn’t do anything with it…

At this point I feel they should have made it early access…

Every time they fixed something they broke several other things… QoL stuff where minimal and annoying things like npcs blocking you on sanctuary never got fixed though everybody who played this game had it happen to them…

I remember MTD being overtuned at release and they quickly added a button to turn of multi-player scaling…

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Yeah paying to skip and getting restarted at the beginning would be a tad counterproductive.

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I don’t think so, but I prefer mobbing over bossing. These Takedowns seem more like a “Line of Slaughter” (though the final bosses in the Circles of Slaughter aren’t nearly as hard, though Red and Blue keep me on my toes for sure ). For example:

  • Map of Slaughter - mob your way through a map to the (mission/rare/opportunity/legendary) boss (Captain Traunt, Red Jabber, DJ DeadSkag, Lavender Crawley, et al.)

  • Line of Slaughter - mob your way through a map in one round to the boss (Maliwan and Guardian Takedowns)

  • Timed Line of Slaughter - mob your way through a map in one round to the boss on a timer (the Trials of Supremacy, Cunning, Survival, Discipline, Fervor, Instinct)

  • Circle of Slaughter - mob your way through five rounds in an arena to the boss (Cistern of Slaughter, Slaughtershaft, Slaughterstar 3000)

A raid boss would just be an extreme example of the Map of Slaughter? Even in previous franchises, you had to mob your way to get to the raid boss… you just get to redo it without the mob as long as you stay there. If you leave, you have to mob your way back. (Not that we weren’t adept at speedrunning through the mob to get there if we did leave, but there was still a mob in the way.) Vermivorous just had a “portable” mob. :laughing:

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All the yes to these ideas. This kind of gets everyone what they want, and is easy to implement. Great practical solution!

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Using Eridium as a currency for “shortcuts” in the game is a request as old as Pandora. If the prices are set right, it isn’t a shortcut anymore (since the time needed to acquire that amount of Eridium should be equivalent to the time needed to do the full task), but this gives the player the freedom to spend that time in more entertaining ways and not get burnt out farming the same boss over and over, doing the same jump puzzle over and over, etc.

Usually these “charge me Eridium for it” requests are for some variant of gear changes (part replacement, level upgrades, whatever), and while these have been almost universally acclaimed by the local forumites, they still haven’t made it into the game. It doesn’t even seem like this would take away from some farming/grinding asthetic that makes the core of the game. If I’m interested in some piece of loot, I’ll hammer that boss until I get it or I get bored/frustrated. If there’s no alternative way to get that loot, I stop playing. If there’s an Eridium-based alternative, I’m still grinding by pursuing Eridium (maybe while working over another boss, so I feel good about hitting two flies with one stone, maybe mobbing because that’s a wonderful distraction, maybe actually farming those little Eridian crystals that are around because I like nosing around for them), but I’m still playing.

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@Adabiviak The biggest difference I see between the “pay eridium to re-roll gear” idea and the “have a switch and pay eridium to advance to the boss” idea is as follows:

The “pay eridium to re-roll gear” idea requires a system that does not presently exist in BL3, and would have to be created and integrated into the game. On the other hand, eridium already exists as a payment/currency system in the game, and the Fast Travel system also already exists in the game. The integration of these two systems and the functionality described likely would only need to be programmed - not created wholesale.

And a reroll/change gear was also allready present in the game :innocent:

Off-topic but an other idea just popped in my head hahaha (other then the anointments on non legendaries only way to get other rarities in play)

Let us use non legendary items in a grinder to create weapons on par with legendaries :innocent:

Maybe add a list with legendary powers we can add at the cost of a legendary and some Eridium or even money (another currency sink)

Back in topic, pay money to unlock a teleporter in takedowns? There’s absolutely nothing I spend money on :rofl:
Slot machines have crap rewards and vendor items I’ve allready found in abundance :sweat_smile:
This also ties in better with the time needed to farm.