A Worthwhile Death?

Ok, so we all know that one of the most important rules in PvP is: “Don’t Die.”

Not only does it give the opposing team an immediate manpower advantage and big experience to unlock powerful helixes and Ultimates earlier than your team, but kills count SUBSTANTIALLY towards the final tiebreaker score in the event of a tie (really only a factor in Incursion.)

That said, I die a lot. I like to think I’m a pretty good PvP player, but I also probably die a lot more than other players of similar skill. I play too agressively, no doubt; survivability is definitely my weakness as a player, which limits me from playing squishy guys like Orendi, Mellka, etc. effectively. Now, I consider myself a good player because despite the tendency to die a lot, I usually am the leader or near the lead in minion kills, buildables, minions, thralls, etc. and generally put up decently respectable kill numbers, myself. I’ve never gotten Worthy of Song, but I’ve been close a few times. And all of this is with spending a lot more time on the bench waiting to respawn than many of my colleagues.

A part of my dying-too-much problem is that I have no pride in my K:D ratio. Couldn’t care less. All I care about is having fun and seeing that blue Victory screen at the end. If I’m 1-10 and we win, I’m happier than if I’m 20-2 and we lose.

With all this in mind, I wanted to open a discussion in this thread about “what constitutes a worthwhile death?” What in-game objective is worth handing over the experience, score, and temporary manpower advantage to your enemies? I want to gather feedback to see if my priorities are right based on general consensus and specific advice of players who know this game better than I do.

Obviously, it’s VERY situational. The manpower advantage is such an X-factor in risk calculations that there can’t ever be hard-and-fast rules. If you die clearing a Meltdown wave, it might result in the opponent rolling over your allies and scoring more points in the interim than you saved by your death. Or, your allies may hold out and nothing happens.

I feel like that’s a good place to start: wave clearing in Meltdown. I play it fast-and-loose here. Points can’t be taken off the board, the game has a finite goal of 500, and if I die right after successfully clearing that wave, I’ll probably be back in that lane by the time the next one reaches the scoring zone. Plus, if the enemy focuses on me instead of my minions while I’m clearing theirs, they’re not clearing my minions. My allies can come along, avenge me, and easily score the wave. I consider this to be a good death.

…Not the rule today with Chaos mode, we are all trying to have fun. :smile:

Amazing post!

I feel and play exactly as you do!

@CharacterIV

Any death where you trade 1 for 1 with El dragon is a good death.

1 Like

Thanks!

What do you think is a situation involving a worthwhile death, @FlamesForAll, my fellow frequently-corpsed comrade?

If it’s a 100-100 Incursion match, and I KNOW I can work the Sentry to get those first critical damage points in, I will take that death all week and twice on Sundays, even if the push breaks with the score 100-99. Eliminating the chance of a tiebreak based on score is a HUGE advantage.

My reasoning is that if we’re actually pushing enough to get the Sentry’s shield all the way down, it’s VERY unlikely the opponents will mount a worthwhile push before I respawn, so the manpower advantage is kind of nullified. It would have to be later in the game, with a LONG respawn wait, and the foes would need to immediately steamroll right back over us, presumably with a fresh wave approaching mid.

Additionally, if I die doing this, there’s a good chance the Sentry or a turret actually gets the kill, meaning the bulk of the exp. awarded is defrayed (right?)

Is dying if you got at least one kill or assist worth it?

What about a few turrets for a death?

Suicide run to take Sentry from shield into having taken damage?

EDIT:

@CharacterIV

Fully agree with your response to my first post!

Had never thought about a Sentry, Thrall, Varelsi, or (gulp!) Minion getting the Exp rather than an enemy player for killing you!

Dying to get the double Thralls claiming pad claimed by your team if you are fighting the enemy over Thralls.

Dying to secure the central Lightning turret when a large enemy force is moving through?

Sorry, didn’t realize you were answering right as I posted the original reply here!

Killing a giant minion right before its going into the grinder in meltdown. Rather give them 3 piints than 20.

Only if it’s on a high-priority target, like a pocketed Miko. If I die taking him out, it’s MUCH more likely my allies will also score the kill on the brick he was healing.

I might also take the death to wax a potent wave-clearer in Meltdown, like Orendi, but only if my wave is in the scoring zone or she lacks sufficient support. Same rationale as my original post. I may give up experience, but if that waveclearer’s absence means we score points, those can’t be taken off the board.

I think it’s also worth it if you die to a different enemy while killing a character with a pronounced power jump, like Boldur or Rath. The harder you make it for them to get to level 5, the better off your team is.

I’m also FINE taking a death if it means dislodging a fully-Rift-Networked-dug-in-Kleese. Respawn times being relatively equal, he’s going to need a LOT more time to re-establish his best value to his team than I am. Of course, this specific value exchange is only relevant if you have a character with crazy Shield Pen, like Whiskey’s What Shields? or Oscar Mike specced for it or something. Otherwise, the ONLY way to kill a dug in Kleese is to AoE his network, so the answer is to do that and conserve the life. Let the old man go, if you have to.

I’d die to make sure I got all the rifts down if I KNEW my ally would be able to kill him after I bit the big one.

That’s a tricky one, because most of the time it’s not a realistic scenario to Kamikaze multiple turrets. The bunkers in Incursion are an example I can think of. If we’re trying to storm their bunker or take ours back, I’d consider it worthwhile if my death resulted in the destruction of the supply station, thumper turret, and some damage to the occupying players, but ONLY if I know my allies are going to be right behind me to finish taking the base and build up the assets.

If the circumstance was right, like we have a strong wave coming through, I’d consider it a worthwhile death to destroy the mid-lightning turret on Overgrowth. It’d severely impinge the opponent’s ability to stop the wave, and the time they’re taking killing me is time they’re NOT waveclearing.

This one is tricky, and VERY subject to arithmetic. If I can hold out long enough to cap the thralls, I’d probably die to do it, but only if the foes were low enough for my ally to presumably survive the engagement.

On Overgrowth at least, escapes from mid thralls are at bad odds. Unless you have a specific escape or mobility skill, like Benedict’s flight, Phoebe’s Phasegate, etc. and can get to your “window” looking down on mid-thralls, then you are forced to withdraw through the aisle with the double shards, right into mid. That’s a HIGH traffic area because of the shards, and you’re probably headed right back into a firefight. You can die capping thralls, or you can die running.

Of course if you are alone, odds are good your newly-capped thralls aren’t gonna do much except delay the enemy. Once they get marching they don’t do a lot of shooting until they get to lane, so if the opponent who killed you is still in any sort of fighting shape, he’s gonna get those thralls.

If the arithmetic is in your favor, though, you’re pot committed once those thralls are dead or near-dead. If you’re 2 v. 1 and you bug out, your ally dies instead of you (same net death) and they get thralls.

If it’s a real rowdy-down, a 3 on 3 or the like, a valiant death at mid-thralls can be a real tide-turner. You die capping the thralls, hopefully doing a LOT of damage while you do, but your allies can overcome the foe as they try to survive the players’ onslaught and damage the thralls in retreat. If the opponents focus the players too hard, the thralls are halfway to the lane or further by the time the engagement is done, and you could hypothetically end up with a single or double-man advantage AND double thralls in the wave.

Fully agree. An Elite on the doorstep of the grinder is no-holds-barred time for me. I’ll blow all my skills, Ult him, and not even care if I get merc’ed. That fatboy is NOT getting in my grinder!

@CharacterIV

PleAse see my edit to my reply before yours.

Minions dead in Meltdown
Two enemies dead.
One enemy if you are an assassin. If a team loses a good El Dragõn for 45 seconds, it’s fine. A competent Miko? The team suffers greatly.

I’ve been editing my replies as well, to include my opinions on your new queries.

:wink:

I think I might be less inclined to die building the turret to stop their wave than wrecking it to augment our push. Turrets can be wrecked too easily.

Of course, I have had MANY instances of being near dead in mid where my only priority before death was to rebuild that turret. I suppose on at least SOME of them, if I had ignored the turret and dedicated to a full escape, maybe through the side bunker, I may have made it out. But then again, unless we have a Miko or Ambra, I’d need to return to base or spend a lot of time at the bunker support station, so I’m still out of the fight.

That’s another good note. I always play tighter with my life when there’s a good Miko or Ambra on my team. With their near-inexhaustible healing-over-time, low health becomes full health in a real hurry.

Killing that sneaky enemy and his backup trying to get double thralls and securing them for my team - totally worth it…!!!