About Todays Moze buffs

The Experimental Munitions buff is considerably bigger than it looks on paper. Remember that Moze’s bonus incendiary damage will never actually be doing the actual amount her skill description implies.

+15% incendiary is actually going to be either +7.5% damage or +26.25% in TVHM M4 content. It’s a pretty massive jump from what it used to be at only 5% and 17.5%. This isn’t even factoring in the 30% bonus Moze can give her incendiary damage. For a one point skill at tier 3, that’s a pretty good boost.


i dont feel like i need a damage buff
i just want useless skills like force feedback or carry grenades to be reworked :frowning:


Hmmm maybe I’m underestimating Exp munitions…

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While i can agree that some these buffs may seem underwhelming, what these changes mean to me isn’t the numbers - it’s the renewed hope that we’ll might actually see some positive changes coming that will fix a lot of the issues we’ve been expressing.

I think the changes made to IB in the past have been pretty great and adressed some issues it had. I did not prefer IB’s sustain to be pigeon held with vampyr but it’s atleast something and it have had a more positive effect than none at all.

Anyway, my point is that i’m hopeful again that we’ll see some improvements coming and it’s a sign that they’re atleast willing. I just need to set my expectations right this time :stuck_out_tongue:


maybe with mayhem 2.0, there will come some greater changes to skills


For me the biggest takeaway here is the IB cooldown improvement. I was able to allocate points out of Grizzled and EP.

The improvements in Security Bear is kinda hard to say if it did have any effect. I would prefer if GB just takes out the 5 sec delay so I can take advantage of the shield faster when doing multiple INs and OUTs.

However I played around with piloting IB with my current build and the fuel improvements are noticeable. My build isn’t designed for piloting IB though.

Definitely. Remember it’s 15% on a crit multiplier and [+ (15 x 0.3)] percent for StE. And crits are already a multiplier. Big damage.

Also applies to PtHP crits because it doesn’t have a gun requirement.

It’s easy to miss just how much extra this adds because of all the numbers. This ‘little’ boost has a global effect so all your multipliers get affected when you hit a crit.


The maths makes it bigger. Let’s say you’ve specced fully into Stoke the Embers and Scorching RPMs. Then you’re looking at,

15% x 1.3 x 1. 2 = 23.4%

But then if you have a build focused on splash damage, you might be adding Fire in the Skag Den,

23.4% x 1.15 = 26.91%

That’s not to mention the effects of Short Fuse, Redistribution, consecutive hits, the Pearl of Ineffable Knowledge, how easy Pull the Holy Pin makes getting critical hits and how powerful critical hits are in and of themselves. Make no mistake, this is a significant boost.

While you have the right idea, I’ll clear this up as best I can a bit (I’m not exactly the one to explain this best).

Using formulas from Moze’s Gun Damage Guide.

This isn’t quite right.

Scotching RPM’s is a crit bonus (additive to critical hits), and EM is a multiplier of 0.15 to critical damage. So if your gun does 100 damage, the crit multiplier is 2. So 200 damage on crit. With SRPM at 5/5 you get 20% more critical hit damage. That would be [100 x (2 + 0.2] = 220 damage.

EM is 0.15 x critical damage or in the example above [220 x 0.15] = 33 EM damage.

So to calculate your crit damage if your gun damage is 100 and you include SRPM, EM, and StE with a non-fire weapon against a neutral health bar:

Critical Damage = [100 x (2 + 0.2)]
Critical Damage = 220

Crit multiplier is 2

EM = [220 x (0.15 + (0.15 x 0.3)
EM = 42.9

StE multiplier is 0.3, EM is 0.15

Damage = Critical Damage + EM
Damage = 262.9

If we used your 23.4% you only get 246.8 with a gun damage of 100.

While that is higher output than your formula, your Fire in the Skag Den formula is off. I don’t believe Fire in the Skag Den receives crit bonuses. Fire in the Skag Den is just 15% of your base gun damage done as fire if your weapon is splash (at 5/5).

StE will boost FitSD by 30%, but it’s still not a multiplier to critical hits. Short Fuse will proc FitSD again though, as will grenades. PtHP will not give you the grenade critical damage multiplier to FitSD, you only get 15% of the base grenade damage.

Redistribution of course adds no damage but you mention just the effects of other skills, so yes you will still regen ammo when you hit a crit while also applying EM damage.

Consecutive Hits and a portion of the Pearl will raise weapon damage which will all be multiplied by the crit bonus, which in turn will make EM have a higher base damage to work from. The other portion of the Pearl will as well, but it isn’t weapon damage it’s a different multiplier that I am not aware of yet. Either way, I believe that multiplier will still raise EM’s output.

There are several other factors that can further increase EM’s damage, and that’s the moral of the story; It is a fantastic multiplier that is a multiplicative increase to a lot of different damage outputs.

Phew, I think I got all of that right. If not the principal is damn close and I’d gladly welcome someone correct it for us.


A simple check after respeccing gives nice results. Speccing only into EM. 5.5k crit gives around 1.5k EM dmg. Decent dmage for this talent. Not sure how much was it befiore buffs.
Other thing I noticed and tbh was surprised. We have no damage buffing talents in any trees. Ofc there are kill skills and, click, click and short fuse. But when shooting with no points invested in any tree, you deal the same dmg to a dummy as fully specced. It’s kind of sad…

Wow, you just took me to school. Nicely done.


I haven’t played the game for a couple months, and played the new DLC earlier this week. That quest to run over guys wasn’t a problem at all. A Technical while speed boosting did significant damage, and you had long wide lanes to build speed to crush them. Most of them didn’t even have shields in the area either.

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Well now I have to go look at fire in the Skag Den on crits. Lol.

But I should note EM is one of the skills Bear gets to take advantage of, so it’s a boost to Bear Damage too.


What difficulty were you on?

I should had clarified. I did it on M3, I killed all the unshielded ones with the technical in 1 hit on that mode when at full speed, but I was not able to go fast in my boosts as I was using the attachment to sacrifice maximum speed for unlimited boosting. I did have the ramming attachment equipped, but not the wheels that also add ramming damage.

I did the same thing, and it worked fine. That was on M4, (splitscreen coop if it matters).

I think crit bonuses are multiplicative to critical hits. So the crit damage calculation at the beginning would be:

Critical Damage = [100 x (2 x 1.2)]
Critical Damage = 240

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Yeah you’re right, sounded right and I double checked with Pris to confirm.

The buff to experimental munitions its kinda nice since it’s only a 1 point skill and others have explained why a 50% buff its good.
To be honest i really dont care for the other buffs but I’m glad that Iron bear’s cooldown was reduced to 100 secs. And happy that the Stainless Steel bug was finally fixed, it feels way better now.

When i read that Behind The Iron curtain got buffed, my first thought was “well ill probably not notice that”, cause why would GBX give BtIC a major buff if we still have those ridiculous rate/delay penalties on the Bloodletter, that would defeat the entire purpose of that nerf.

But according to the Hotfixes notes, this is the first batch of Moze’s buff/fixes, so probably next week, she will get more significant changes.
I would rather have skill changes instead of buffs TBH.

That mission was so annoying, i had to set my game on M0 to complete it. And even then i had to ran over the enemies several times to kill them.


The cooldown reduction is fantastic. Honestly bear is always there or just 5 seconds away every time I want to hope in now. Big big difference. Really for me it is like 30 seconds cd from fully drained tank to back in action now.

And it stealth buffs Moze even more because you dont have to invest in Cool down reduction at all now.

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