Alani is now trash

(Awesome By Analysis) #23

[quote=“epicender584, post:20, topic:1554766, full:true”]The general opinion seems to be with her strength is at the perfect point.
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I wouldn’t quite agree, mainly because of the addition of Bea and her absurd levels of wounding. Alani, more than any other healer, relies upon her ability to self heal to stay alive and Bea just straight up turns that off. Bea is too easily able to perfectly shut down Alani. Within the context of that meta, I definitely don’t agree that she’s “at the perfect point”.

Also, Geyser is still woefully weak. Compared to Catalytic Smash, it’s harder to hit (due to the delay), smaller area (way smaller since it’s a circle, not a cone), lower damage (134 v. 141), longer CD (25 secs compared to 17), and provides a similar control effect (the bind is so short they come down pretty much as soon as they pop up).

Like so much of the Alani changes, it’s like they didn’t like how often they could be used with GwtF and decided to nerf the abilities rather than GwtF (which totally junked her early gameplay and the viability of Whitewater).

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(Ambra's Arbiter) #24

Yeah, I haven’t had enough time with her post Bea to know what will happen. Probabaly not good

I nearly included an aside concerning that, but her relative strength is still good even though parts of her kit may be a mess

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(wisecarver) #25

You are being generic so I have to add that I’m doing each character in the Mike dlc at 100 Ops and Alani did better than most, including Beatrix.

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(Awesome By Analysis) #26

I gotta ask this question too.

Whitewater increases her attack speed by 20% while Go with the Flow reduces CDs by .5 secs every time you hit with Torrent.

Also, @HandsomeCam, GwtF has never been nerfed (they’ve always just nerfed her skills in general) so I have no idea where you got “Alani’s lvl 7 cooldown helix used to be OP” from. It’s still OP (it’s, by far, the strongest CD reduction helix in the game; Orendi’s level 5 helices don’t have anything on GwtF); the only reason Alani isn’t is because, rather than nerfing the OP helix, they decided to nerf her skills (which just made GwtF more valuable, which is highly perturbing).

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(Keadron) #27

You mean she did good with cooldowns cut in half? However using the new dlc as a justification for any characters balance is in general a bad idea as you don’t deal with things such as wound, dot, silence, long cooldowns, etc.

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(Penguin connoisseur.) #28

Sighs… Yes; just as i am familiar with strawman arguments…

There. I fixed it. Sorry that one word apparently made my point unclear…

@Kitru, I was saying it’s no longer OP because her cooldown times were nerfed. The difference is that, like so many other characters, that helix is now a must-pic. It’s a strangely indirect way of fixing the OP factor, i agree; but it was still a fix.

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(Awesome By Analysis) #29

[quote=“epicender584, post:24, topic:1554766, full:true”]I nearly included an aside concerning that, but her relative strength is still good even though parts of her kit may be a mess
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I didn’t mind it before since Alani was still a very powerful healer, which, coupled with her ability to self heal, also made her surprisingly durable. Now that Bea can permanently shut down any healer by looking at them funny as long as she’s got line of sight, Alani’s relative strength has plummeted.

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(Keadron) #30

Actually your whole argument isn’t clear. Either choice will make her stronger. That doesn’t mean she is balanced or that helix choices shouldn’t be addressed when affected by “balance” changes.

Also by not fixing that one helix rather than the skill you can now look at other helix. Take her level one for example. There was always a larger heal on one however now that riptide has a longer cooldown the difference is massive and only becomes remotely comparable at level 9 with the increased duration choice

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(Awesome By Analysis) #31

[quote=“HandsomeCam, post:28, topic:1554766, full:true”]@Kitru, I was saying it’s no longer OP because her cooldown times were nerfed. The difference is that, like so many other characters, that helix is now a must-pic.
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Except it’s still OP, regardless. GwtF is so ridiculously powerful that the 4 sec increase to Riptide’s CD means basically nothing after you’ve gotten GwtF.

The nerf to Riptide didn’t substantially affect GwtF play because GwtF is just that strong. It did, however, substantially inhibit non-GwtF play (i.e. anyone taht hasn’t hit level 7 or wants to take Whitewater for a basic attack/healer set up, which I actually prefer to do).

If the intent of the Riptide nerf was to nerf GwtF play, they must not have put a lot of thought into it because it ended up doing the exact opposite since it makes everyone except the people taking GwtF worse.

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(ThisWasAMistake ) #32

The only nerf that was unwarranted was her Riptide cooldown increase. She needs some QoL changes but that is it really and maybe a slight change to her geyser, but other than she is a good character.

Edit: OH and her level 2 helix is really bad. Just saying…

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(Keadron) #33

Don’t forget fixing helix. Such as the range increase that barely functions at all as it hasn’t been touched since her range nerf

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(Ambra's Arbiter) #34

:heart:

I love whitewater :sob:

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(Awesome By Analysis) #35

[quote=“Keadron, post:33, topic:1554766, full:true”]Such as the range increase that barely functions at all as it hasn’t been touched since her range nerf
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Wut? Since I’m assuming you’re talking about Pressure Wash rather than Water Proof, I’ll say that I definitely notice the range increase in Pressure Wash. My only problem with it is that it doesn’t also increase the range on Wellspring and just ends up increasing the range difference between targets you can heal and targets you can hurt.

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(Keadron) #36

It should work on both however the range should be more. Most things out of range will still be out of range after taking it. The helix was set up when she had more basic range but hasn’t been changed since. If you don’t believe me run through the Att dlc. Most of the things that were out of range will still be out of range

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(Penguin connoisseur.) #37

^This was my argument.

@Kitru, alright, i’ll give you that. Personally, i don’t think i’ve ever seen an Alani NOT take GwtF, but then again, i know that you play PVE almost exclusively, where players don’t take the most OP loadout (or character, in most cases) available to them. I also don’t like having my options restricted, or having a PVP “fix” break a character’s element in PVE; so i see where you are coming from.

All i can say is, in my opinion, and from a PVP perspective, Alani is now a strong, well-rounded character, who is now a “late gamer” because of the cooldown nerf. She still wrecks in the right hands without having to jump through hoops, like a certain ex-champion we all mourn. She’s certainly not the all-powerful oppressor that she was at launch anymore either.

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(Awesome By Analysis) #38

[quote=“Keadron, post:36, topic:1554766, full:true”]Most things out of range will still be out of range after taking it. The helix was set up when she had more basic range but hasn’t been changed since. If you don’t believe me run through the Att dlc. Most of the things that were out of range will still be out of range
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I’ve played copious amounts of all of the DLCs (I have more than 450 runs through the Attikus DLC) and Alani was (and still is) my preferred ops running character. I take Pressure Wash about half of the time while soloing (I also love Kinetic Diffusion because making Alani the fastest character is absolutely awesome fun :3) so I’m well aware of the differences in the ranges. It’s not huge (not that range differences beyond short range are particularly easy to notice in the first person perspective), but it’s enough for me to notice.

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(Keadron) #39

And she isn’t “perfectly balanced”

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(Keadron) #40

It’s easy to notice for me to notice as well. The range increase is just too small to really be of use.

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(Penguin connoisseur.) #41

That’s STILL an opinion, any way you want to slice it. There are people saying Mellka is perfect where she is now, since having her venom neutered, but i disagree; most of the community seems to disagree, but that doesn’t devalue the opinions of the people who think she’s fine.

Why? Because all opinions are equally worthless, unless they are medical :slight_smile:

Seriously, listen to your doctor.

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(Aurox, omnidimensional horror) #42

Can confirm wound effects her the worst IMO, as a pendles main with legendary, the fact that her full stacks will only heal for like 415 late game on a target (even less on her) cripples her in healing and survivability

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