All Action Skill Damage needs improvement; not % buffs, but to scale off your weapon damage

I’ve played a good portion of the characters in the game now, and I can say with some degree of certainty that it’s no particular character that’s the problem. It’s not just Iron Bear, or Clone, or Phaseslam - it’s all of them. None of them hold up at the hardest parts of the game, all of them ultimately just become ways to proc your skills and anointments, not legitimate damage sources in their own right.

I think there is a solution here, one that isn’t just buffing them percentage-wise.

Amara, for example. Her phasecast and phaseslam’s damage, by the endgame, isn’t even capable of killing a single mook enemy. At that point, even using it in line of sight is actively bad, because it also exposes you to enemy fire while stopping you from shooting.

The solution to this is Direct Damage Transferal.

For example: Imagine if Amara had a skill that counted all Elemental Effect damage she did, and saved that number. Then, when she casts Phasecast or Phaseslam, 20-50% of that damage number was simply added to the initial damage?

Pow. Instant damage scaling. No matter how powerful your weapons are, eventually casting your action skill will be worth it, because the damage will continue to accumulate! For some weapons it might take 5 seconds, for others it might take 20, but as long as that weapon is elemental, eventually there will be a point where your action skill will do serious damage.

The same principle could be applied to most vault hunters. In fact, they tried to do this with Zane, just larger problems with the Clone in general kept it from working.

Unless this is fixed, almost all action skills will end up like Axton’s turret in Bl2; a sidenote mainly used for buffing your character, and not an interesting and deep mechanic of its own.

If they scaled off the current weapon equipped, then wouldn’t people just switch to a Torgue rocket launcher or Jakobs sniper before every single action skill use, and might never actually use the gun?

I do agree that flat damage on skill and nova/spike gear need some buff but the example you give for amara just doesn’t work since it can be abuse to kill bosses in 1 hit pretty much.

Depends on how the exact scaling worked.

For example, say Iron Bear’s chain gun only worked with Assault Rifles, and worked by multiplying your fire rate by 1.5x(after spinning up) and replacing your ammo with the existing ‘heat up’ mechanic of the current chain gun? That way you’d always be more powerful in Iron Bear, but not excessively so.

Railgun could work similarly. It would only work with Sniper Rifles, and would give the sniper rifle 3x damage and 2x critical damage, in exchange for -60% Fire Rate. Salamander would multiply your elemental effect damage rather than using its own set value, etc, etc.

That way Iron Bear would always be a bonus, or at least a comparable tradeoff.

So, would this require you to have that specific weapon equipped, in your loadout, or would there be a generic level equivalent that the game would scale this to?

What would be cool is being able to give my Jabber the gun I want.

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Preferably you could just have a gun equipped in your loadout. Being able to farm for extra gear slots wouldn’t really hurt the game, imo; people might want different guns for Iron Bear vs their actual character, so being able to equip each arm would be a good thing.

Now that would be a cool idea. Depending on the one you pick you can change its weapon would be the best method I think. Aka shotgun monkey can use any shotgun you have and so on.

Would be especially cool with useful anointments on ASE, I would give it a nice purple jakobs shotgun with a such anointment. :grin:

What also would be cool is if it could carry stuff for me, it looks like it already has a back pack, so why I can’t interact with it to put stuff in?!

But well I hope the next bank and back pack upgrade will alleviate those needs a bit.

In order to do that, you would have to have done five times the bosses health in Elemental effects damage, so I think it would be okay.

I’m asking a lot of questions because people have mentioned this, and I’m not sure how it would be implemented. So the IB weapons would scale off of the currently equipped weapon, right? Otherwise maybe it just be in the loadout, but there might be problems if they have multiple of the same gun type. But I still feel like that would encourage players to just hold onto the strongest weapon of the desired type, despite potentially never using it.

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Would that be a huge problem? I think it would be okay for some guns to be better with Iron Bear than on Moze, or vice versa. Iron Bear doesn’t need to be better in all circumstances , it just needs to have a tactical niche. If you use different guns on Moze, that’s a okay in my book.

I just realized, if it required you to have the weapon equipped, what about if IB had two different weapons equipped? And I think instead of requiring the player to have specific guns for different IB weapons, there could just be some static base that the game uses to scale at every level instead of requiring a specific weapon or weapons to be equipped.

I really can’t see how to tranfer any damage from the guns to pets, since they all have have different stats go beyond raw damage and fire rate. Plus having to commit one out of four weapon slots to IB synnergy would make never use him except for emergency shield regen time.

At most I could see the listed weapon effects (no unique and manufacturer) being used as a passive bonus, ie, gun damage, crit, fire rate, etc.

Though they will probably just give them an extra boost per Mayhem, and it’s really all I ask for.

i made a post on one way how they could increase damage for iron bear specifically, but could be applied to all of em basically. you can find it here.

they could basically just add annointments that incease skill damage. Gives you more option on how you want to build and deal your damage. if they add it via annointments it’s a lot more flexible too and you can have a loadout with 1 annointment that buffs weapon damage and one that buffs skill damage, switch to which ever suit your needs for that specific moment.