Alternate deckbuilding and card mechanics (updated)

Project 1v1 Project 1v1 General Discussion/Feedback
#1

From my perspective i can already see three major potential problems with this game. It lacks the random nature that other card games thrive on and thus lacks replay value. Secondly there are too few/no options to counterplay an opponents set of cards. Lastly the deckbuilding seems way too simple i am sure this will change in the future but until then i might aswell add my own two cents to it. Another minor issue is that x loadout on y map may give you a disadvantage compared to your opponent

I have several bold idea to solve these issues…

CARD CATEGORIES:
List cards as 4 different categories Weapon, Armor, Accessory & Ability. Before the first round and in between every round after that a player may equip one of each category with the exception of ablities of which three may be chosen as part of a loadout. This loadout will remain active until the round ends and a new set has to be chosen for the next round. The weapon card equips a weapon used to kill an opponent. The amor card would determine your hp/shields. The accessory card would be a strong usually supportive passive effect. The ability card will provide an acitive ability with a cooldown and/or charges. Weapons and armor may also provide passive benefits but this is not always the case

ROUND BASED GAMEPLAY:
A single match consists of 2-3 rounds each lasting two minutes and played on a different randomly selected map. If a player wins two rounds he/she will be declared the victor as such a third round will only be neccessary if both players have each won one of the first two rounds. Before the first round a player must choose 6 cards from their deck to be equipped as their loadout as described earlier. After the round is finished you lose the currently equipped cards and a new set will have to be chosen to be used on the next round. On the first round only tier 1 cards may be equipped. On round 2 you may also add 3 tier 2 cards to your loadout. If the match lasts three rounds 3 tier 2 cards and 1 tier 3 card may be equipped. This is to give the sense of an escalating battle accompanied by increasingly powerful and complex cards being used. Only the best player will be able to use all of the complex tools to be victorious

DECKBUILDING:
A deck consists of 30 cards
6 weapon cards
6 armor cards
6 accesory cards
12 ability cards

As for rarities a second set of rules will be applied
12 tier 1 cards
12 tier 2 cards
3 tier 3 cards
3 (Wild)cards of any tier to fill the last few spots as you see fit

REGARDING POWERUPS:
A good idea from another player is to have two spots in each arena to periodically spawn powerups/health (So if a player camps in one spot you can always go for the other) This will passively influence a players behaviour to seek out an advantage by either quickly grabbing it or ambushing a player before taking it yourself. Eitherway i believe this is a great way to encourage fights to happen

HEALTH AND SURVIVABILITY:
I think another good idea would be to have armor set hp at anything between 100-300 and shields at 0-150 But your total effective hp provided by armor should never be above 300. Accessories and weapons can each provide another 50 hp or 25 shielding each. Leading to a potential max effexctive hp of 400. I would like to have health powerups to only provide a small heal and to have shields regenerate slowly. This will make exciting clutch kills/deaths often happen as you are never expected to survive many fights in a row before dying yourself

I get that i am asking for a lot here. But i felt the need to share some/much thoughts. Let me know what you guys think of this

Cheers Dustwake

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New Card Mechanic Idea
#2

When i heard that this game was going to come up into existence this is exactly what came to my mind XD. well except that i added 3 more sections for spawn-able minions such as turrets, grunts, death robots, and patrolling units.

#3

I was pretty disappointed with the way they have the card aspect. It really is just picking your weapons and abilities. They don’t have to be cards and just putting it in the form of cards doesn’t make it a card game. They need to change it mechanically to suit what they are verbally advertising.

#4

I agree. If they want to advertise this game as having card game elements, then they need to do more with the ability cards since, right now, the game is just customizing your loadout with different weapons and abilities.

When I first heard the premise of the game, I thought it was going to be something along the lines of Phantom Dust, i.e. a card game that forces you to play in a more action-oriented setting, rather than the standard “card game on a table” format. While 1V1 certainly isn’t a card game on the table, it’s really only an FPS rather than a card game in any form, hence everyone’s comments on the matter. That said, I will say I’ve found the game to be quite fun so far, though I am admittedly new to the arena shooter genre of FPS games, so it could be the excitement of experiencing something “new” that’s been carrying me forward so far. I do wonder, assuming they dropped the line of this game having “card game elements,” if it would do okay as it is in general (though I do agree it needs to allow people to swap their loadouts at least sometime mid-match), but that doesn’t mean it has to stay as is either. This is a very early alpha build of the game, so we can likely influence the game’s design heavily. So with that said, here’s what I personally would like to see from the game.

Sure, this game might be fine as an arena shooter with customizable loadouts and abilities, but why don’t we make this game more unique and related to part of it’s selling point by making it a hybrid action card game! I mentioned Phantom Dust before, but another game that I think fits this description well was the battle system for the Megaman Battle Network games. Both of these games had card game elements in that you had to build your deck of “attacks” based around deck-building rules and that you had to draw from these decks randomly, but you still had to land the attacks you drew with skill rather than having them just instantly hit like most card games. I think this could be easily transferable to 1V1 and would make it both a very unique and fun game on the market. There aren’t many other games that are doing this sort of genre mashing, so it also wouldn’t have as much competition.

Of course, Phantom Dust and MMBN weren’t FPS arena games either. So how could elements of deck building and drawing be implemented into 1V1? I think you’ve touched on some of them well slukje/Dustwake, but I want to expound on your thoughts with some of my own ideas. When it comes to deckbuilding, you’re absolutely right about having certain card rarities being limited per deck. 1 legendary, 2 epics, 3 rares, etc. are typical limits I’ve seen other games do. I do wonder if weapons should be randomized or not though. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I don’t really think any weapon counters another (except turrets if they count as a weapon). They just each have their own strengths and weaknesses. I’m of the personal opinion that weapons should be locked in per match, so that this way players can build their decks around their personal load-out. I know weapons currently have rarity applied to them as well, so this would mean that either your deck’s build limits will have to be affected by your weapon rarities, or all weapons should just become common and easily accessible. But to return to the deck building idea, I already feel like 1V1’s abilities would work well for a card game format. Take cards like the Shields or Time-Turnback abilities (I’ve forgotten their official names). Right now, they start off with 4 charges, but in a card game these “charges” could be split into 4 separate cards you have to draw throughout the match. Cards like the Mines or Double Jump would likely have to be one shots as well, though some cards, like the Double Jump, could apply permanent affects like the Vampire card, where you get the ability until you die.

Now, an important question to consider is how players will “draw” new cards. In the high action genre of arena FPS, there’s little down time, so players need to be able to draw and use their cards quickly and efficiently. In terms of hand size, I think the current “hand” of three abilities works well. It doesn’t overwhelm the player with too many options and buttons they need to press to activate them, but it offers a fair amount of choice as well. As for drawing new cards, I can think of two ways it could work. One could follow the route of Phantom Dust by having each player’s “deck” spawn in a certain part of the map, and in order to draw a new card they need to move into the “deck” orb to get their new card. I noticed someone saying that, supposedly, a key design element in arena FPS shooters are item spawning areas for players to try and deny each other, so trying to deny your opponent drawing from his deck could be another way to implement this. It would also work out fairly well since a player spending time to keep their opponent from reaching their deck is likely not drawing from their own deck in the meantime. However, the issue of potential camping of an opponents deck, particularly with cards like the turret, would be a problem, especially if the camper has cards like Vampire or Excalibur activated as well. This is why I believe the second, and possibly better option, would be to allow players to refill their hand upon death. This way, players will be careful not to fire their current abilities in hand too quickly, while at the same time, they need to make sure to fire a few off in order to keep drawing into their deck. I believe it would create that perfect tension of wanting to time your abilities appropriately, while also not holding them back for too long lest you be at a disadvantage.

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#5

I can definitely see minions and other summons become part of an accessory. In my mind they are what should be either a powerful abiltiy or passive effect. It would be fun to spawn a small drone for example that slowly flies in the direction you are facing at the time of activation. if an enemy comes into line of sight it will turn and move in that direction while firing a small machinegun

A patrolling summon could be the death robot you mention a small yet sturdy tracked tank that moves along the surface in search of an enemy

#6

I believe they will eventually make it more like a cardgame rather then the current “pick a loadout like every other shooter out there” way of doing things. The only similairity this has with a card game is that the items/cards are locked behind lootpacks

#7

What makes you believe they will change it? Wouldn’t they be testing that type of card mechanic currently if it were in the plans to be different?

#8

Minion summoning idea Actually if you like the idea. i posted a forum about the idea for minions.

#9

Maybe i misunderstood you here. But that is exaclty what i mention things to be like. Upon death the cards you currently have equipped are lost and your hand is refilled back to five of which three new cards must be chosen to become your next loadout

I do believe some form of power up to force fights to happen would be great. I myself would prefer something simpler then drawing extra cards however. Perhaps a damage boost or something as i dont believe it has to be anything crazy only enticing enough to draw players in

The mechanics i proposed are actually fairly limiting to naturally speed up the process of picking a set of cards. Only 5 cards max in your hands throughout the game of which only three can be taken as part of a loadout that is lost on death after which your hand fills up to 5 cards again to allow a new loadout to be chosen. Your choice of cards to equip is low by default as you are only allowed one of each category. Imagine your hand having two type A cards two type B and one type C. In this case C must be taken so your only choice for that category so all that is left is having to pick one of two type A and B cards

In my head i had the idea of making a weapons rarity be based on how exotic the weapon would be. Any conventional weapon would be considered common. Anything out of the ordinary will have a higher rarity. This ties in to my idea of having high and low moments during a match when it comes to power

Unless mechanics are added to force some kind of counter like having one weapon provide life steal and another reduce the amount of healing a player recieves upon being hit by said weapon. Weapons can only counter one another based on circumstances like fighting a sniper user in an open area with a shotgun. My sole reason for having weapons be randomised is solely for the reason of it being random in the first place :stuck_out_tongue: I believe its fun to have to constantly shift your tactics around what the wheel of fortune offers you and have your opponent deal with the same arms race you attempt to outplay and outsmart him/her with

That is the right way to think :smiley:

One possible idea to this would be to make the entire game switch arena up to 3 times per match with each arena counting as a single round that takes 2 minutes to complete. Whoever gets the most kills in that round is the winner. If one player wins two rounds he/she wins if at the second round both have won once a third and final round will determine the victor. Loadouts will have to replaced in between each round

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#10

Because the game is marketed as a cardgame/shooter hybrid the former being absent currently hints that they have no plans yet on how to add this part to the game or do have an idea on how to tackle this but may still be open to suggestion as it is likely still in a conceptual state

1 Like
#11

I have read it and i do find it inspiring. Ill be sure to add some feedback on it later but first i need to sleep

#12

I actually meant something slightly different than that. My thought was that any unused abilities stay in your hand after death, and you only refill up to three cards if you’ve used any at all. I can see how your idea gives the players more choice, but considering (at least how it’s currently built), that matches are based on who gets as many kills in a time limit, I’d imagine winning players might try to burn time while choosing their cards in order to increase their odds of staying in the lead. By forcing players to work with whatever cards they draw into their hand of three, the game’s quick action can largely be kept the same (and is a bit more true to how most card games work, since you don’t normally choose which cards you want to draw).

Yeah, that could work as well. It’s a design area that will likely be worked over multiple times I’m sure. We already have this somewhat with the health pickups that drop, but it’s hard to know when they’ll respawn at the moment.

I’m pretty much repeating what I said earlier in this reply, but I just wonder if even having to make choices like that would still be too much down time, particularly for time burning strategies. I could be wrong though!

I put your two quotes together since they essentially discuss the same thing. I guess my reasoning as to why a player’s weapons should be locked into a match is because they should be able to build their deck to help them take out other players whose weapons counter theirs. So for instance, if you have a bunch of close range weapons, you should have a fair number of cards in your deck that allow you to sneak up on, approach unharmed, or entrap players who have long ranged weapons. I can understand your desire for the weapons to be randomized just to have more randomness, and that might work for a special game mode, but typically in any card game, you need some sort of constant you can base your deck around. If everything from the map, what you draw, and what weapons you have, is randomized, deck building would actually be a whole lot less varied since you’d have to account for any weapon combination on any map.

Yeah, that’s certainly a way to do it. I’ve seen some other suggestions by players in this forum that seem pretty good too, such as allowing a player to swap their loadout if their opponent gets a killing spree or a rampage against them. It should be noted though that I only think loadout switching should occur if the game stays along the lines of what it is now. If it were to take on something like the card game idea we’ve been bouncing around, I think your deck should be able to include defenses against counters your opponent may have, thereby negating the need to switch weapons mid-match.

Thanks! And same to you! That’s why I’m excited about being invited into 1v1’s development this early. The chance for us to help shape it’s core design in a fundamental way is quite large, which is pretty exhilarating. :smiley:

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#13

I can work with that yes. How about removing abilities from the current three categories (accessories now only provide a passive) and add a 4th category of card specifically for abilities of which three must be equipped at a time bringing the total equipped cards to 6. These cards will have a Iimited amount of charges available.

We should then also allow a player to pick from their entire deck as they see fit and make the game round based to lock stronger cards behind later rounds to have the match escalate in available power after every round. Of course this also means you have to pick a new loadout after every round

I will update my thread at a later time to include these ideas

#14

Just another two cents on this topic. Why not just draw 5 random cards from your card pool each match that you then have to use. Good players would have to master all abilities and weapons, along with it forcing those who find the perfect combo wombos to play with cards they feel less comfortable with.

#16

If i assume you mean you get a random combo of 6 cards out of 30 and be forced to use that during a match this game would be extremely RNG based. You may get a combination that is very counterproductive while your opponent gets the perfect synergies

#17

Here are two ideas :smiley:

Sentinel
Category: Ability
Tier 3
Charges: 1
Duration: 25 seconds (starts counting when turret is deployed)

Creates a a bulky and slow yet fragile threaded vehicle that moves forward until it reaches a dead end with 45 hp and a cannon that shoots every 0.6 seconds dealing 15 damage. The cannon is inaccurate at medium distance. If the vehicle is destroyed or reaches a dead end it will automatically unfurl to reveal a laser turret after 0.5 seconds with 125 hp that shoots every 0.2 seconds dealing 9 damage. The laser is Always accurate but at long range will only deal 6 damage. The turret is vulnerable during set-up

Wolfpack
Category: Ability
Tier 2
Charges: 2
Cooldown 45 seconds
Duration: 8 seconds

Spawn two flying drones each with a high movement speed and 30 hp. One drone will fly out to attempt to find an enemy and upon doing so will reveal and mark the enemy with a short range target painter causing him/her to take 10% more damage. This effect will linger for 0.5 seconds. The gaurding drone on the other hand will stay nearby and only attack with a light machine gun if an enemy is in direct line of sight. The machinegun fires every 0.2 seconds dealing 4 damage and is inaccurate at medium distance