That sucks op. But with Monty and Toby u should be able to counter pick them pretty well. Gali has that kit that don’t quit but she can still be manageable. Boldur though? Boldur is basically a cheat code incarnate and I don’t ever really consider those real matches personally
But I don’t really think all the cc is a huge problem personally
Especially when they should be at least 105 haha
I usually follow the pro community for what’s actually good. But the japs play what I define the meta as. They actually are the general scale. It’s either cc on Meltdown or Ernest Ambra Gally Orendi with a wild card in Incursion
Nobody likes getting stunned. And then stunned some more. And then stunned some more. And then dead. It’s not fun. Neither is getting body blocked. Nothing worse than knowing i bailed out of a fight at the right time but because xyz character’s hitbox is so huge, i just can’t get around them. I used to gripe about this. Ad nauseam.
But you know, it does take coordination. Chain stunning is only as good as the team that actually takes advantage of a situation somebody sets up for them. There should be some reward for coordination. That annoying Miko heal-botting everybody? If he slips up, you should be able to lock him down and kill him. Same for that high health Kelvin, Boldur, Gal, Montana what have you. Any priority target really (Reyna pun intended)
And i wouldn’t want to see anything take away from the ability to set these up. It’s the check and balance against over aggressive players zerging your back line. Encouraging bad play by enabling people and coddling them isn’t the solution to the skill gap. Do you know what is? Not nerfing easily accessible characters too harshly. Oscar Mike was a perfect example of a character who could be picked at an early CR with little experience in PvP and could still contribute to a team. I cut my teeth on a character like that, because with his napalm and his air strike, i felt like i was still making an impact even when i didn’t always know when to push and when not to, and reading cc tells and having map awareness
I’ve read nearly every post in this thread. Let’s start with that I’ve played games li ike League, smite, overwatch and of course Battleborn. CC is indeed very present in the game and it does make or break a team depending on how much you have vs the enemy teams amount of cc, how easily applicable it is and of course DPS of both sides. Which can be argued is like every other game anyways. Except overwatch as that game is purely ranged combat with every hero except Reinhart. That games dilemma is accuracy of players and chosen DPS and healing. Which is why I’m sure some players say go play overwatch if you can’t deal with the CC of battleborn.
The problem with battleborn’s amount of CC isn’t simply because a player doesn’t realize it’s there and knows what to do, as I know how every character works in the game but still when I’m trying to setup for my team with Galilea I’ll get pulled by Ghalt, tackled by Montana/bouldr, bubbled by alani sometimes and then DPS’d to death by their whole team and the stupid sentry. As galilea I have an escape at level 5 and up but most of the time I’m overkilled before I can even get up on my own two feet.
Some people may say “well you probably should invest in CC reduction and damage reduction.” I invest in half of that with health regen. 19HR to be exact with her legendary and that Bliss legendary that provides damage reduction and health regen. Even while corrupted getting 40 HR with my desecrate healing me it’s not enough. The problem isn’t that I didn’t see the hook coming as I can’t see through enemies to see their allies attacks but there is no reliable option to stop CC without a healer (Reyna helix lvl 5 I think. It’s on the right lol but I don’t use it) or that item that states “removes all debuffs when healed by an ally”
Other games have items that are outside what you build for def/DPS/utility to allow a higher skill cap and a few extra tools to mix the game up. I completely understand that’s what helix options are for, they are great at what they do alongside the gear, but you can only choose 3 and you don’t know your opponents picks until everyone has chosen unless it’s draft. Granted that’s how it was before the last update but that doesn’t mean everyone has gear to help with anti CC nor load outs with them. I always thought the load out set needed 1 or two more slots or it could be revised as 3 main slots with 1 or 2 for utility purposes. Utility being a badasses legendary gear and others that don’t directly or mainly effect damage, defense, attack speed, max health, shield pen, skill damage. (“Mainly” as a lot of gear have secondary stats that have those other stats combined but again should only be sorted by main stats.) Which will allow a bit more diversity with the game rather than everyone getting Bola snare, with that other gear that makes everyone around target take 15% of damage to dealt. Just to put it on orendi and kill everyone with her pillar and ult combo and not even actually hit 3 of them with those moves at all. (I’ve ran away crippling as she fired that combo off because I saw it coming and backed away, but noticed I still took damage and had to figure out what gear they were using because I was dumbfounded by my loss of health while not directly impacted by her abilities)
Rant aside
Battleborn is fun and I love it. I just think the easy stun Combo setups are annoying as there is no reliable option to get away from it. As gear you have to Earn first before even being able to buy them during a match. I myself don’t even have Bola snare and the other one I mentioned. As matchmaking for public operations is toxic itself as you wait for 2hours for people to join in, only get 1 or 2 allies and have to fight between them for stage choice. Or wait for it to be featured. Ontop of that you have to fight properly against 1shot enemies depending on the number of your team, Which I will talk about somewhere else, just for a low low chance to getting a legendary drop, then for it to be maxed or even the one you want (I only get duplicates of gear I have never anything new or if it’s new I got it out of a legendary box and it’s juice…)
I agree with the stun meta as when ernest was out the ranged meta became more prominent because everyone could cross map camp and 3 shot foes.
I understand Benedict orendi galilea and ernest are top bans, but orendi I have already explained why. Benedict can 1v5 as he can’t be easily damaged from the height he stays at only achievable by him with stupidly high damage, the latest nerf he got to it im sure isn’t enough. As galilea with my builds he shouldn’t 3-4 shot kill me at any given moment in my life. Either damage reduction sucks or I’m just going to stick with saving all my skills just to kill him every game I play. Ernest I just explained why as well. His egg and passive makes him and allies like Montana really dangerous. Especially now with the buff to Montana’s freeze or simply by going the fire Marshall route, it’s super deadly without him lumberjacking anyone. Also nobody is going to ban the charachter they want to use and have a higher won chance simply because they offer high cc and damage. Which is why bouldr Kelvin and others aren’t banned so easily esp since a good team can counter those two a bit more easily.
Summary it’s not completely the players fault that there is high amounts of cc without any implementations of having a sort of safe guard outside of awareness. The game itself restricts you from making a load out until you reach a certain level. This isn’t skyrim, sacred, dark souls, etc. There shouldn’t be a restriction of such a caliber at any level. Personal player progression doesn’t mean it’s going to be any better the next match in play in a game that has every characters progression reset at 0 at the start of a new game. Which usually means all items able to be used are available to you at the start, and you don’t have to earn them either. You just have to fight, survive and earn money to make smart purchases. Battleborn mixes way too much different genres together without fully understanding the longterm impact it has on players old and new. Pros and casuals. They just allowed draft and the ability to see opponents picks at any level of play. As before it was like COD where you find out as you load the game even with preset loadouts, but you can’t swap them in battleborn which is perfectly fine, but with the high amounts of damage and cc in the game, it doesn’t Warrent the only 3 gear system it currently has and the inability to stop cc unless you grind for hours or days esp on events where legendary drop rates are super high. (Even then I still only ger the same gear over and over as battleborn doesn’t state any criteria except play on advanced.)
Fighting a single Mei is like fighting two Kelvins at once… and Sublimate has no cooldown for them. The CC lock in Overwatch is actually worse.
However, I do agree that stunlock is very annoying. There really isn’t a counter to being chain CC’d, and that’s the only part that annoys me about it.
If there was a legendary that gave you CC immunity after being hit by a CC, Reyna’s CC cleanse was buffed so that it was CC immunity (or all overshields granted CC immunity, including Shepard Bots, Boldurdash, Fetch, ect.), or more characters had helix options like Ghalt’s Level 10 CC immunity… I’d be more comfortable playing against teams of Ghalt, Galilea, Kelvin, Miko, and Montana.
@Jythri what do you guys think of overshields granting CC immunity while active? It certainly weakens the CC meta, and makes overshield based characters far more powerful. (Makes me worried about how tough Shayne and Boldur will get, though)
i like this actually. most overshields, like regular shields are easy to knock down - and overshields arent OVERLY present. boldur needs his overshield helix changed anyway. shayne has to actually hit something to get hers. this would give reyna a much bigger role.
The problem with creating creating singular legendary solution is you turn that item into a must have that everyone ends up using. I’d much prefer they revisit CC stat and make it worth using.
Your example was you getting chain CC’d as Galilea in front of their Sentry. You’re a high value target up in the front lines. Doesn’t it make sense they’d focus you down? My question to you is where was your team? What were they doing that they allowed their Galilea to be chain CC’d and focused down. Did it eventually become a positive trade for your team because the other team burned all their CC to deal with one BB?
The bans I saw at the recent HGL tourneys, aside from specific target bans, were Kelvin, Galilea, Boldur, and the fourth being either Benedict or Galilea.
Our team was crapping on them but they were able to hold their ground. I died but the two I was focusing died… the subject is cc not does anyone die from using cc. I came back and killed Ghalt for it then Montana dies by an ally. I got them back yes but the chain cc still happened. They missed it another time they tied and I simply ulted away.
You also must be misinterpreting what I meant. Ghalt did not pull me as I was anywhere near the sentry. I was aligned with the opening of their cliff that you walk up from their end up parcor from outside. Not at the wall yet that Ernest players put their egg but beyond the one that divides the two sides of the whole map though. The silver one. He pulled me in sight of the sentry so since I was the only thing there it gunned me down.
They did it to my allies several times but I stopped them from killing them at times with my vortex or if I was alani at the time healing them and using geyser for that extra heal and to stop Montana from gunning.
That shield idea is great. Makes more sense esp for Rayna as all she does is add a shield which doesn’t seem to be affected by damage reduction. Which imo is dumb.
I use the remove cc helix, but is usless when there are more of one stun in play…
Sorry I guess I don’t follow. They burned all their CC on you, the tank, you traded two for one, and your team was “crapping” on them. Is that right or am I misreading?
You also mention that you were able to counter the CC later on, and they even missed the combo. So I guess all I’m getting at is yea, it exists, but anecdotally you just gave a few examples of how even with a CC heavy setup your team persevered and chaining CC didn’t make the game implode.
This isnt just about CC in general guys. I’m talking about getting whacked into a wall by Montana and dying before he’s even picked up a shard. Get your CC at level 5+, I’ve got no problems with that. I’m just sick of being stun locked and killed so early in a match that the enemy has a level 5 while your team is still level ~2
My team won because we kept each other alive but I only survived once and my teammates only survived only a few times.
Yes I’m giving a few examples of its fail, but that doesn’t mean every 10 to 15 seconds that combo didn’t pop up. Which was landed more often than not. I’ve lost games because of that combo as Every single one of my most Nobody survives those. Even as alani in the background Kelvin eventually makes his way over to me with his stun and Rath had a long knock up so there was no getting away.
P.S. I saw it coming prepped a geyser but their DPS still killed us all. 3 man wipe right there.
There is a Ghalt and Shayne/bouldr combo. Even I can’t save them front those. Which are also more guaranteed than the Montana one simply because Montana is a huge target and gets focused at times which is why he missed the one against me that one time. He got out of position because of our sniper.
I never said they were all fool proof and could never miss. Though before it used to be 100% if you had a Ghalt as the trap causes you to be stunned back then and gave anyone ample time to react.
I’ve never said I wanted the mechanics removed or diminishing returns on followup cc. They just need to implement a proper system that allows people to opt into it better than what currently stands.
For instance. Remove the starting cap of being able to make loadouts at the minimum of level 5. Make it always available and give a starter set at level 5 instead. Since they want progression there of some sort. And change the gear loadouts system and allow more gear to have debuffs removals outside of ally healing as well as more readily available ones period. Press B, O, or whatever key you have the melee button mapped to but it comes to a loss of attack damage for a short period of time and has a cool down of 60 seconds.
We’ve talked about this, and would definitely like to chip away at the CC-centric meta.
Internally, we call the CC removal ability “Cleanse”, and it’s something we’ve talked about bringing out more as a game mechanic, much as we did “Wound” last summer. If we did that, we probably would not apply it globally to overshield (Bolder is a good cautionary example here) but would give it to certain, specific characters. Reyna probably WOULD get it with her overshield, and we would scatter it through a handful of other characters that need more variety in their kits.
Do you think Pendles will be on the list of characters with a self-cleanse ability? Or is it more likely that his CC reduction ability (I don’t mean just his passive, I mean his general slipperiness) will remain the same?
My above marks are currently speculative. Mostly, I’m agreeing that CC is an issue, and confirming we have talked generally about what we would like to do. At the moment, I don’t have any details regarding how we would re-work it.
I see. Thanks for the speedy response.
Awesome, thank you for your input and a little look behind the scenes on what is being talked about.