I suppose at this point nobody cares about ambra (especially developers apparently). She is not a strong healer with her sun spots. Since her damaged was initially nerfed twice her life drain isnt useful. Now her ultimate skill what is on a delayed timer no longer slows, so im sure i will never hit with it again. What data do the developers look at to decide balancing? Is thier one guy in the office that is a god at ambra or something? Also does anyone else notice her melee strikes now take less heat from her heat meter? Why didnt they mention that in patch notes?
I must admit I was a bit baffled by the change to Extinction Event. I never felt like it was overpowered, especially since Ambra in general was balanced downward to be more in line with where she should be.
I was in a match with Ambra. She was sucking the life out of my hero while myself and two other teammates attacked her. She was able to kill me and escape with 70% of her health. She needed to be nerfed.
They did mention her melee strikes. Scorching Strike is the melee attacks that drain heat. the patch said they dealt more damage than was intended
I don’t like to be too negative, but I actually have a few things to say about this as it’s something I actually have feelings about.
It’s not just about Ambra, really, but how they’ve been handling balancing.
Separate PvE & PvP
PvE balance should have no impact on PvP and vice versa. They should be balanced separately. Even if it takes a big patch to do it. The modes are so different that it’d be like trying to create a meal for two people, one of whom is lactose intolerant and the other isn’t, where a necessary ingredient is milk and you have to serve the same meal for both.
What I’m getting at is that the one is going to be harmful to the other. And you’re going to have to sacrifice the solidity, fun, and identity of one to suit the other. This is why the two sets of balancing absolutely need to not be connected to one another.
This has actually killed interest in a few of my favourite games. One of the most notable being Champions Online. It often happens when people who’re new to balancing try to dive in headfirst without having much experience.
Every time heavy-handed, unnecessary nerfs hit CO, I heard people talk about how they had to just completely drop the build their character was using just because some min-maxer used a part of it. They’d just tell Cryptic they were fed up of that and leave.
Cryptic didn’t pay any attention, and Champions Online is now a ghost town. I’ve watched this happen time and time again.
I would beg Gearbox to reconsider how they handle balancing. Instead of rushing into it, they could present a ‘balance overview’ of each character and ask for community feedback, as well as this, they could have a more gentle approach and balance in smaller increments across a period of time to allow people to ease into where Gearbox wants that hero to go.
By doing this slow you ease people into it. By doing too much, too fast, you will alienate people and cut down on your overall community. I don’t mean just a few people here and there, I’m actually speaking of something quite a bit more catastrophic. Consider the ghost town of CO.
Fun Over Competitive
I don’t know whether this is a shared perspective or not so I’d want others to chime in, here.
To put it bluntly, I can’t ever see Battleborn being an eSports phenomenon. Not because “[i]It ain’t so good as what that other game is.[/i” but more that it just doesn’t feel like that suits it or the audience they’ve courted. I feel that Battleborn is more in the market filled by Splatoon than, say, League of Legends.
This is probably undesirable, but pushing the game hard in an eSports direction could easily ruin it. It may be what the majority wants, though. It may be a prevalent viewpoint that people actually want Battleborn to be an eSprots game, in which case I’ll shut up and I’m sorry.
It’s just not the feeling I get from it, though. I think that eSports games tend to separate themselves from a regular playing audience who’d just play it to have fun. It’d mean you’re balancing in favour of min-maxers who’re going to try to do their best to exploit the system in a way that fits inside the rules, that’s common in eSports. Countering that though means that you’re making people who aren’t exploiting all the weaker.
I’m not sure if I agree with Gearbox’s approach to balancing for Battleborn. I’ve felt this way ever since I saw the nerf to ISIC. It’s been anywhere between vexing and heavy handed. It’s genuinely sometimes just baffling and I can’t figure out where they want a hero to be in the long run, it’s not something that inspires confidence.
For me, there are two negative points about Battleborn to consider: I think Gearbox needs to look at the balancing and consider how what they’re doing will hurt/help the game in the long term. I also think that PvP actually really, really needs a lobby system to support the smaller playerbase that Battleborn has courted.
I’m saying this not to hurt Battleborn, but because I’m an avid fan and I love this game. And sometimes, if you actually are invested in something and you see destructive behaviour there that would take it away from you, you absolutely need to speak up.
So, in a way, this criticism is selfish. But onlhy because I don’t want to see Battleborn go away.
This point is a double edged sword to the point that it almost contradicts itself. If they listen to community feedback they’ll have to nerf and nerf hard. Just look at every other thread in this forum. Nerf this, nerf that, buff this, buff that… When they do that, the other halve of the community wakes up and starts asking questions about why certain things got nerfed and why it was necessary.
Listening to the community this early in the game is a true damned if you do, damned if you don’t scenario. I’m all for listening to community feedback, but in the case of balancing everyone in the community is biased. If I were the developer I wouldn’t listen to the community when it comes to balancing, but look at game statistics instead. W/L, K/D, pick ratios etc. When a certain character has way higher average stats than others, a nerf may be warranted. I suspect they’re already doing that to be honest.
I’m actually really disappointed in the developers with this nerf. It was entirely unneeded, especially since Alani just dropped, with a sticky, massively damaging AOE for her ult, a knock-up/stun combo on one of her skills, and a respectably sized AOE on her other skill. I’m not entirely sure what to think any more.
Pvp always kills pve. I mostly pve so I notice these things.
I’m not sure I follow why this conversation in particular sparked a sudden need for PvE/PvP splitting. From what I can tell, the latest Ambra nerfs did very little to her in Coop. Her ult was never about the slow there, and her alt fire is probably the least important part of her kit there. So uh…whatever? She’s still a great support.
Ambra is now not viable anymore! There is no reason to pick her now…
She is still viable as a healer. This nerf was a bad idea but it doesn’t maker her unplayable.
I’m not really in favor of this further nerf. She seemed well balanced compared to other heroes. I don’t think she’s unplayable, but I’m certainly going to take advantage of the nerf for Alani’s lore challenge.
[quote=“shaman.wulf, post:5, topic:1476862, full:true”]Instead of rushing into it, they could present a ‘balance overview’ of each character and ask for community feedback, as well as this, they could have a more gentle approach and balance in smaller increments across a period of time to allow people to ease into where Gearbox wants that hero to go.
Okay, so the rest of your article aside, this is really not a good idea at all.
If you want proof, just read through the “Nerf/Buff Galilea” posts on this forum. The average user has no IDEA what balances a character. They usually don’t even know why a character works successfully. And for every constructive post which actually brings to light aspects of her kit which are problematic, there’s twice as many “she’s fine” or “nerf her into the ground” threads full of useless spam that shouldn’t even be considered.
The real way you balance a game is by putting together a group of focus testers with experience in the industry. Gamers who aren’t only proficient at playing, but also understand what makes things work how they work. Many pros don’t even have this capacity.
Opening balance suggestions up to the public is a horrific mess. Most people have no ability to balance a character.
Oh, and for the rest of your thread, I completely disagree, they’ve been doing small incremental nerfing, Galilea is a great example, how many times have they had to nerf her and in how many different ways?
That’s how balance is achieved: Assess the performance of a character.
Determine which aspects you believe to be the cause of the unusual performance.
Adjust an aspect you feel is meaningful.
Measure the results.
As long as they continue that process it doesn’t matter how they nerf a character, too much or too little, it will continue to improve, and if continual improvement “runs off” players who are too attached to their over-performing characters then, frankly, they’re not going to like a competitive environment anyway.
Ambra’s still a good character, but I also feel as though this was very unnecessary. What she doesn’t have in heals, she compensates in utility and they just took some of that out of her kit. I don’t believe she needed a buff, as many claimed, but she certainly didn’t need a nerf.
Don’t get me wrong, she’s still a viable support, but the more she gets nerfed, the more I’ll hear I’m the reason we lose matches for picking a weak hero. That’s not fun. At all. She’s my main and I can’t even play her anymore without earning myself the scorn of my teammates.
This Ambra fan is unhappy
How big is her Extinction skill? To the question “how will it hit?” I’d guess the same way Kleese hits with his. His is delayed, then sucks those in range in and damage, whereas Ambra is delayed and then does damage.
Extinction delay is 3 times that of Kleese. Anyone with half a brain can avoid it.
I feel you OP, though I don’t agree that Ambra is 100% useless now. I feel like people just don’t realize how much healing she can do and how much presence she has on the field.
Balancing on statistics like win/loss and k/d is a bad idea because it doesn’t take into account player base. It is natural for beginners whom lose frequently to gravitate towards certain characters and bring down their stats. SFV actually released Win/loss records for characters at one point and Ryu whom is considered top tier, and repeatedly performs well on a professional level, had the lowest winrate because so many bad players gravitate toward him.
fair enough. Listening to nerfthreads is not a viable alternative though.
Really the only fair way to balance is to have a professional scene or a ranked mode where you can look at what the top players are doing. Till then you have to try and mix statistics and community opinion but it rarely goes well doing this.