An idea to balanced HW1 and HW2

Many people are saying that the HW1 and HW2 races are unbalanced. Most of the focus falls upon the HW2’s upgrades which forces HW1 races to rush or lose in late game. The problem in balancing this issue is that how does one give the Kushan and Taiidan upgrades for late game without changing the playstyle. Well, I have an idea.

Make the Kushan/Taiidan ships upgrade based on how large your research ship is.
Every time an extension is built, your ships become more powerful in such a way that once you have level 6 research ship, all your ships are on par with the upgraded HW2 ships.

How would that help you ask?
Well first, the game play doesn’t change. All HW1 players have to build that ship, but because of rushing it never truly sees full completion. This makes rushing less common since the ship takes up build slots and it encourages players to get it to fully upgraded.

But what happens if it gets destroyed?
Make it so once you get an upgrade that is it you got it. The destruction of the research ship does not remove your upgrades, but it delays the construction of the next one since you have to start from level 1 again.

I hope this idea help people in search for a possible solution of buffing HW1 without changing the way they work overall.

PS: Sorry for any grammar nightmares!

1 Like

Interesting solution, I like it.

This has been suggested before and it’s an okay one.

One problem lies in how you might not want to upgrade down the tech tree. You might just want corvettes and frigates. But you have to upgrade anyway for the upgrade.

Another is balancing the cost vs what you get. Well, it seems HW1 tech is rather cheap since they have so much required tech, so it is rather in line for the upgrade costs. But the research times are really long too, to balance out not needing production modules.

Personally, I really just think the level 2 upgrades on HW2 races simply need to be removed. They are useless fluff that makes for a balancing nightmare.
It should just be one upgrade that generally increases survivability by a hit or so, if at all.

Then, as an aside, HW1 races not having those ugprades wouldn’t matter and they could be placed in the middle or so. There’s a few ways to go about it that I’ll experiment with with a mod, I think…

Simpler and better balanced solution would be to just give HW1 races the same armor and speed upgrades as HW2 races. Do note that doing that right now would put the balance quite in favor of HW1 races.

Sorry but no. HW1 races have already changed way too much. It’s time to change HW2 races to fit into HW:R.

In that case, HW2 races need some serious buffing. For example, HW2 capitals are at disadvantage in speed department. Battlecruiser starts with 60 speed. Heavy cruiser starts with 90 speed. 50% faster and it can hyperdrive right out of the gate. At level 5 upgrade, battlecruiser has speed of 93.

Also, removing upgrades may work to rebalance the game but it also removes some tactical depth from HW2 multiplayer.

It’s easy to just make things the same and perhaps form a balance pov it might be easier but it’s less interesting. The best idea (and hardest) is to make something balanced but different. Sometimes that’s not possible and can betaken waaaaay too far. Also looking at stats in isolation (speed) without looking at the other stats (HP, damage, subsystems, range, cost, research cost, etc.) means you immediately will fail at making correct balance changes.

Don’t want them to be removed. Just balance them :wink:

And most HW2 ships are actually faster then HW1 ships. Even without upgrades.
The BC is the only HW2 ship that is slower then HW1 Heavy Cruiser.

I know but it goes further than that. 1 on 1, hiigaran BC beats kushan/taiidan HC. But fleet is also as fast as it’s slowest ship. If you move your ships as a fleet in formation, then HW1 fleet can cover whopping 50% more distance. The balance would need to be reworked ship by ship basis. Of course, it’s not a good idea to balance them so that every class of ships has exactly the same speed, health and damage as an equivalent the ships of the other fleets. For example, ion frigates of kushan and hiigaran are already perfectly balanced. Where one has more armor, the other has more damage. In a 1v1 fight they will TIE aka both blow up.

Also, while in HC vs BC battle, the BC wins, when you make that match HC and 3 destroyers vs BC and 3 destroyers, kushan/taiidan will be clear winners as hiigaran/vaygr destroyers always lose against kushan/taiidan. In a 3 destroyers vs HC/BC test, kushan HC survived with losing just 25% of health. But hiigaran BC survived with losing over 60% of health. Kushan/Taiidan destroyers are more powerful than Hiigaran/Vaygr equivalents. (because Hiig/Vgr destroyer can not fire all of it’s guns until it has turned it’s flank towards the target)

The Vaygr BC and dessies are faster, and have 2 speed upgrades.