An open question for devs in regards to the state of gear in pvp and how it relates to your goals for the game

@Jythri
So I am pretty new to this forum. I have spent some time on reddit and spent the past several days thoroughly searching through the threads here, as well as the threads where gbx has commented on reddit in regards to the competitive goals for the game. I recall reading some stuff that predates even the closed test last year in regards to the devs’ hopeful aspirations for competitive play for this game. They sounded great to me. They hoped it would one day be esports, which im sure most competitive game developers do. I love this game, love the borderlands series, and i enjoy this game very, very much. But something has me beyond confused. That something is legendary gear.

If people reading this thread are not familiar with how gear functions in a competitive setting, in a nutshell, it functions in a way that is completely opposite to how legendary gear functions in this game. You will NEVER see a piece of gear that can only be equipped and used by one character. The gear is never acquired through campaign missions. The gear also would never provide cc to a kit that didnt include it in its skill tree. There would never be something like the alamo that allows you to become immune for several seconds. These are just a few examples.

I guess the point of this thread is to ask what @Jythri and gbx position is in regards to legendary gear and pvp. Will we see a playlist where you cant use it? As in, an actual competitive playlist, not just tight or loose elo, but competitive? If you plan for the game to go esports one day, or even have competition at heart for the game, why have a lootpacalypse? Why allow it in pubs if it isnt allowed competitively? What is the point? Why have the passives, rather than just making them strong in basic stats? You guys lost me with the gear, man. Is this borderlands, or is it a competitive game?

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The best analogy I can draw here is with Super Smash Bros - in the competitive scene, there are a number of rules (in Melee, it’s 4 stocks, 8 minutes, no stalling, stage bans, counterpicks, no items, ect) to make things as balanced as possible.

However, that isn’t the only way to play. You could enable items - or legendary gear, in this case, and have a blast with the different choices available.

I agree there needs to be a playlist exclusively for those who want balanced matches without the lopsided influence of legendary gear, but to question the purpose of legendary gear in pvp is just electing to ignore the playerbase that enjoys using the gear they earned through pve.

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Because, currently, there is no “competitive” scene in Battleborn. There is however a loot system in place, and there are players who enjoy using the loot they farmed for and the Lootpocalypse brought many old players back to the game and some new ones as well. This game is young and the playerbase is small, especially compared to other similar titles on the market, too young and too small to start considering “competitive” play at an esports level at this time. As it is the MOBA market is already flooded with “competitive” MOBA games and Battleborn has barely made an impact on that scene yet.

Because this isn’t a “competitive” game, and even if it was it’s not like any other MOBA on the market. Here’s my question: If Battleborn is to one day become a “competitive” game, why should it conform to the same criteria as other MOBAs, when this game is so different? I don’t see why Battleborn can’t create a new form of “competitive” play and set its own rules rather than have them dictated by every other similar game that’s doing the same thing.

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It’s because when compet started legendary items were horribly broken.

Now they are not even that much better than purples and the number of good combos have been reduce to a few. So at this point now its just people with a fear of something they never use.

I concur. Especially items with powerful tertiary effects are now a different thing.
Example:

Pre-patch Vyn’s Quiver was considered OP by many, because of the slow. Because of its existence, not many did bother using Mini-Singularity Launcher instead.
But post-patch, is everyone suddenly running Mini-Singularity Launcher? No.

That’s because what actually made Vyn’s Quiver OP was its compatibility with almost every ranged character. Anyone with reloads could use it for the slow, with only minor drawbacks on Reload Speed (compared to a pure Rifleman’s HailFire Mags).

Mini-Singularity Launcher is still a niche item, probably only really usable on WF or Marquis, who - surprise! - have innate ways to gain access to a slow effect.
The only character (I can think of now) that would actually gain a slow from using it, would be Oscar Mike.
That’s way more balanced.

I think it’s time that people realize, that Legendary Gear (no matter if considered ‘OP’) is actually just high-risk/high-reward shard spending. Activating one piece of legendary gear could almost buy you two perfect rare items.
That’s why I never run more than one legendary in a ‘serious’ loadout. But from what I hear, anyone starting a tournament is probably banning legendary gear up front. :smile:

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idk, man. there was a tournament about a month or so ago that was across all platforms. there were 23 teams on xb1 alone, and gbx offered shift codes to all participants, and special codes for those that placed high. i also know people who scrim private 5v5’s with competitive rules on a daily basis. When i am in a lobby, the top team in the US knows who i am, and i know who they are. that sounds like a competitive scene to me. granted it isnt LoL or Halo, but there is defnitely a competitive scene on console
@Sm0kerCrew what made vyn’s quiver op was that it slowed you… it had nothing to do with any other effects or stacking of effects from other gear. your primary slowed… it added cc to kits where it did not belong. see boots of the brute if you need another example of broken.

If you read my post again, you will notice, that I was comparing two items with the same tertiary slow effect. One (Quiver), was used excessively before the nerf. The other not so much (Launcher).

To make my point more clearly: Would you use Mini-Singularity Launcher on Mellka?
I wouldn’t. But you could’ve used the pre-nerf Quiver. Now, if you want that same slow you have to use an item with less preferable main and secondary stats.

That’s all I was saying. I’m not trying to argue the power of these slow effects (especially the Boots).

I think all slow gear has been made balanced only thing is I play mellka and I now love vyn’s quiver with song of vigor you get up to 22.80 Heath regen per second if you have a full team running song of vigor it’s ridiculous maybe a little OP but not as op as Klesse

i would have to disagree very strongly, respectively. just by simply having a high cost it doesnt justify adding cc to a kit where it didnt preexist. boots of the brute makes someone like galilea way stronger and more broken than she already is. couple that with her lore legendary giving her the strongest life steal in the game by far after she stuns someone, and you have literally a walking exploit.

Reminds me a little bit of SFxT. They had equipable “gems” in the game that would activate based on pre-determined criteria. (Ex: after landing three shoryukens, gain 20% attack power for the remainder of the match). Also, random fact, the gem loadout was set at three!

Problem was the gems were account-bound, meaning you had to earn them, and some could even be bought as DLC. Needless to say it was a nightmare for tourney organizers, and the players almost universally hated it.

Capcom eventually added some universal/pre-defined gem loadouts for competitive play, but it was too little too late. It was a system that was probably the main cause of the death of a good (if flawed) game.

Not that I think legendaries are going to do the same to BB. I mean, BB came off the shelf with the ability to just have an empty loadout. And comparing the competitive fighting game scene to competitive shooters/MOBAs has a lot of issues as well.

Is this a pointless post?

…Too late, I already typed it up.

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i dont think your post was pointless. i think this little snip-it right here is perfect. i think that once the playerbase numbers werent what they had really hoped for they started kind of just grasping at straws trying to get people to play. having a lootpacalypse is a great idea to get people interested that arent playing, but it alienates a big portion of the playerbase in the process. i personally have quite a large group of friends that i play with or are in my parties on a daily basis. literally not a single one equips legendary gear in pvp because we have all either played in tournament, or participate in private matches where you cant use it. i think the loot event was very confusing to us. we were kind of scratching our heads because we have been trying to promote a competitive scene for the game, but the event just muddies the water.

they have nerfed some of the overpowered legendaries, which is great. but there are still a few outlyers that need some attention. i think that gbx is really torn because they want to make a competitive game and know they cant have legendary gear if they do, but they want to have loot because theyre gbx and its what theyre known for and what most of their loyal fanbase wants. after all, borderlands made them who they are, not pvp games

Don’t complain if you haven’t even tried to find a counter for this.
1.CC gear
2.What character do you play?
3.every character can use some type of escape mechanism whether it is agility,quick melee,claw lunge,nullify,pounce,silence,stun,etc,etc
Name one character that can not escape from gali with boots of brute

something I look into when I see my enemy’s is how to beat them I also hang back in the beginning and watch looking at their play styles
Galilea has boots of the brute? I jump all around that kid spraying bullets so much that she can’t touch me

this isnt a complaint thread about galilea. i have over a 90 pct win pct across all the characters i play, as well as at least a 7.0 kd across them as well. i dont have much trouble playing against any character. but my success or failure means absolutely nothing in regards to character balance or gear balance. the only thing that matters is gear and character potential. if you or i beat players using broken things, it is us beating the other player, not the gear or the character. the only time i have played against equally skilled players is in the tournament, or when i run into the team that won the tournament in a pub. im not trying to sound arrogant, i am just trying to remain factual. i simply havent experienced much even skilled play.

but just to humor your points, did you seriously just bring up cc gear? are you serious? and just an fyi, claw lunge, teleport, pounce, lumberjack dash, nullify, etc do not work when you are stunned and then pulled and silenced. idk what game youve been playing

Dodge the stun run till your not silenced anymore and claw lunge or nulify out of there I have not had a problem with galiea being “broken” like you said in a looooong time and trust me I know what u mean about similar skill levels I am on a 40 game win streak even with klesse being broken

then one condition is present: you are much better than all of the galileas you are facing. just because my team shuts them down doesnt mean anything other than they severely got outplayed. occasionally a player on my team will troll and play her and it is baaaaad. a good galilea wont let you “dodge” the stun. if you are dodging her shield throw, the user isnt that great. but, again, this thread is not about galilea.

So this thread should be clear then, no? Legendary gear in PvP exists for a certain portion of the playerbase that enjoys using the gear they farmed against players. Allowing it in the current matchmaking system isn’t alienating because, well, everybody is able to use any gear they wish. Choosing to not use legendary gear doesn’t mean that everybody should follow suit in casual (meaning not tournament-style, competitive) gameplay.

Until a truly competitive playlist is released, private matches are the only way to ensure they aren’t used.

What’s your SSBM tag?

I’m a competitive melee player.

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I don’t play it, I’ve been following it since '05. Sorry my dude :stuck_out_tongue:

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Well then you have good taste either way my dude.

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