#7

I tend to get a Cursed Blight for the kill. Cursed targets standing in Blight is scary!

I havent really tested Focussed Volley recently, I used it only once way back when I first started using Thorn but never went back to it. Infact I used to use the Cursed Volley for the really easy Curse effect until I got Thorns Legendary gear, now I take Nockout so I have a higher damage potential. I really should start working on Focused though because that will have a higher damage count if you land 2 or 3 crits, even 1 crit and 2 hits should do more damage I think.

Iā€™ll probably make a video someday when I get around to actually trying to record stuff so I can make a visual guideā€¦ probably be long as ā– ā– ā– ā–  tho :stuck_out_tongue:

#8

I got a question about:
Helix 5: Hextension/Fiendish Curse/Hexsanguination

Iā€™ve been using Fiendish Curse quite a bit and I figured Iā€™d try out the guaranteed damage per second of Hexsanguination. I noticed right away I was no longer basically one-hitting peopleā€™s shields with charged arrows. I thought the fiendish curseā€™s shield penetration would first need an enemy to be cursed and then it would penetrate/bypass the shield. However, it seems to work on the initial ā€œcursing shotā€ and basically does more shield damage vs bypassing said shield. I want to have a setup that is best against good players and not just the normal player (like walking into or staying in Blight). So I figured against good players getting that curse bonus damage is much tougher and that wiping out their shield super fast may kill faster. Then the DoT guaranteed damage might be better. Also, I feel like I engage first with Blight more times than not so quite often they arenā€™t cursed while in Blight.

#9

Good points here.

Iā€™m going to make a video guide in the coming weeks and redo this guide with more info on every helix option and maybe short videos on situations where one may be better than other.

Because of all the success I have had with pretty much any option in the helix, I want to make a guide that maybe doesnā€™t tell you how to do the best, but instead tell you how everything works and how you might combo it in real combat situations so you can make your own Thorn.

#10

That will be great, and since Thorn is an advanced class letā€™s hope you really dive into the details. :anchor:

#11

Iā€™ll do my best, never made any long videos other than montagesā€¦ definitely nothing with me talkingā€¦

Hopefully it goes well :slight_smile:

#12

WOW

Switched to the Focused Volley helix and boy is it hard to land! At least on small moving targets. Huge damage potentialā€¦ gonna have to make a volley focused helix build and see all I can do with some accurate shots :slight_smile:

#13

Ehā€¦ itā€™s trashā€¦ feels like a DPS loss :frowning: Definitely wouldnā€™t suggest taking penetrating volley over the slow from blight :frowning:

#14

I do switch to Slow Blight on The Experiment, it really shines there since one more second is all you need.

#15

Iā€™ve only seen one Thorn who used this and to date it was the best Thorn Iā€™ve seen. Not saying it was solely because of this skill, just saying.
Hexsanguination is excellent for putting damage on that fleeing enemy who you canā€™t pursue for whatever reason, fire a Volley and if he/she doesnā€™t die, the DoT might do the job and has for me several times. Then thereā€™s the benefit of an extra 8 seconds added to the targetā€™s shield recharge delay and 8 seconds that they have to spend running or hiding before they can teleport back to base. If you need to maneuver to re-position yourself rather than just chase directly you might find that your target is hiding somewhere with a full shield or has teleported back to base, but while theyā€™re bleeding they canā€™t do either and you can wait out their death or sneak up on them to finish them off rather then charge in and die for the kill if theyā€™re surrounded by allies or defended by a turret/sentry, or let them go and miss the kill altogether.
As for lost damage, Wrath of the Wild deals 500 damage. +25% from Curse, thatā€™s 625. Stack another 10%, 675. 12 damage over 8 seconds is 96, 96>50. I havenā€™t tested this at level 10 when skill damage scales while DoT remains fixed but at level 5 and probably for a few levels after DoT damage outweighs +10% to Cursed enemies. Blight of course deals less damage and no enemy is going to stand in it for the full 6/12 second duration (Well, they shouldnā€™t anyway, any enemy who does is a dead enemy either way) so less damage = smaller benefit from percentage increases.

Using Hexsanguanation isnā€™t about not being sure of yourself, itā€™s about being sure that you can secure the kill that other Thornā€™s canā€™t, risk free :wink:

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#16

I use the DOT a lot in PVP because so many times when I hit with a Fully drawn cursed arrow those enemies just run because they got hit so hard and I rarely have a chance to land a second shot.

A few of the big slow ones I do like Toby, Kleese, Montana, but most just run.

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#17

I will be redoing this guide completely once I complete my video guide. Ill be doing away with all my opinionated comments and be trying to find reasons for every Helix options. Been testing around a bit with different build choices and gameplay styles, kinda hurting my stats but oh well :stuck_out_tongue:

Also as a note: I always try to make games last the 30m, so build heavy for late game :slight_smile:

#18

I know Iā€™m late to the party here, but I disagree with a lot of your helix choices.

I play her as a sustain champ that canā€™t be matched in lane. I spec into getting the most out of her Blight and bleed, and it has nothing to do with being ā€œunsureā€ of myself. She dishes out enough damage that her bleed takes away enemy champs only hopes of escaping with <100 hp.

1: Swampfoot (but I see the value in PV)
2: Always Fell Wind, good for getting into or out of any situation.
3: Always Draw Strength, Thorn has too much mobility for Burst Propulsion to be of any value in my experience.
4: Always Kreshekā€™s Judgement, free curse with every volley on every champ effectedā€¦
5: Always Hexsanguination, combined with H4, every volley is followed by bleed damage. That just screams free secure kills with no chance of them escaping.
6: Always Brutal Blight
7: Always Vaulting Hunter, that jump makes her among the most mobile champs in the game and makes Burst Prop pointless
8: Always Distant Blight, doubling the range of your most powerful attack and CC? How can you not take that? The cooldown isnā€™t that bad, and youā€™ll use it more often at farther range. Hell this wipes out minion waves is 2 seconds, so the farther away you hit them, the better off you are. Plus, slow down escaping champs with ease.
9: Whichever, not a huge difference.
10: Earthender, an additional blight.

#19

Oh donā€™t worry, so do I :stuck_out_tongue:
I just just delete this thing honestlyā€¦ never gonna get around to properly redoing it and probably never make that video guide unless I stop playing the same group of 100-200 people on PC :frowning:

But Burst Propulsion is amazing, even with Vaulting Hunter. Itā€™s not as useful in Incursion anymore with Sniper Towers now being more beneficial for the enemy team than your own (GG you dumb piece of shit box out front) but in a map like Meltdown it allows for new bits of mobility that Vaulting Hunter didnā€™t offer.

Burst Propulsion also goes in any direction, so for PC players, that means going in a horizontal boost while simultaneously fighting someone. PC players can use it to juke shots. Console players? Ya probably notā€¦

The only situation that makes it useful for any system, is avoiding things that Vaulting Hunter might of made you go towards. (or if not lvl 7 yet) Also allows you to jump over dangerous skills. Kelvin Sublimate? Jump>Burst Prop. Want on that ledge for whatever reason? Jump>Burst Prop. Rath just silenced you and is now spinning and winning under you? Canā€™t use your jump cause stuck airborne? Burst Propulsion.

Also you have to think. If you have Vaulting Hunterā€¦ just who do you need to shoot through? I used to use Draw Strength a lot but after switching I realizedā€¦ I donā€™t shoot multiple people that oftenā€¦ In fact if I jump up, I just shoot one person and I avoid body blocked shots. It only helps for Wave Clear really since it doesnā€™t effect Volley (like it did in OBT), and you knowā€¦ Swampfoot Blight kills anything that isnā€™t Shepard Bot Overshielded, do I need to shoot 2 or 3 mobs with a single arrow? Not really.

Blight has a CD of 15 seconds, a duration of 6 seconds, and insane amounts of single second damage. Why get more range when if you play Thorn aggressively and in close proximity? Double that duration and suddenly there are only 3 seconds where a Blight is not on the mapā€¦ that is a lot of area denial and a huge potential for more damage dealt. Especially if your trying to blow up a Sentryā€¦ itā€™s a ton of damage and effects Earthrenderā€™s Blight as well.

As for the DoT, I tried it out a bitā€¦ not really impressedā€¦ I like to blow people up fast and there are plenty of ways for someone to heal up in time to not die to a DoT effect. More Curse damage means 10% stronger volley hit, 10% stronger blight, 10% stronger Ultimate. There are too many ways to get more damage from every skill, compared to the more damage from a single skill or long enough draw back. I did the math, a lvl 10 Cursed Wrath of the Wild does 1046 damage + 10% stronger blight after + the damage from the arrow. A lot of classes are dead by this point.

K I am gonna stopā€¦ I didnā€™t intend to write this muchā€¦ sorry. Guess I like these discussions :3

#20

I agree 100% of how useful burst propulsion is. Got pulled into Galilean ring of death and your slowed? Burst Propulsion. I second the getting away from rath spin to win. Never die with that if I have burst propulsion. Makes it so easy to get around maps, and yes, useful in fights to kite around people. So much easier to deal with melee characters if they donā€™t realize you burst propulsion yourself behind them. Being chased by some wine with low health on a raised platform. Jump off and Burst yourself back on before you hit the ground. They will have gone down blindly following you.I play on console, and I approve burst propulsion.

#21

With her extreme mobility Thorn has perhaps the best survivability among Battleborn, even without Burst Propulsion I seldom die from Galiā€™s ring of death or Rathā€™s spin to win just because sheā€™s so fast and jumps so high. I much prefer Draw Strength, the value of killing Miko behind Montana or killing enemies through the thrall and minion blockade on Overgrowth is too good to be overlooked in favour of a little more survivability on a character whoā€™s as hard to kill as Thorn is, IMO.

#22

Have you gone up against any teams that would use Galilea and rath well? A good rath will sneak behind you, use the ranged skill to slow you, then the knockup followed by spin 2 win. Without burst propulsion you are caught, because you are still slowed by him. Have had many Raths try to use this technique on me, and it never works because of burst propulsion.
As far as Galilea goes, I have come against some Galilean that knew how to use the pull to screw a Thorn. If you are jumping with thorn and Galilea activates her pull, it will launch you across the map, and youā€™ll be slowed and silenced. Iā€™ve had several Galilea that knew how to use this very well, and they would launch me directly into the middle of their entire team. Iā€™ve gotten away more often then not thanks to burst propulsion.
I know how handy draw strength can be, and I used to actually defend it against burst propulsion with a passion. I loved using draw strength and killing a Miko through a Montana or Galilea. Itā€™s a godsend against a Toby that knows how to play Toby effectively. After playing with Burst Propulsion for so long though, I have a hard time going back. I use it multiple times in every encounter I have, and it makes it very difficult for even a spraying Montana, or a good Melka to hit you at all, let alone do any real amount of damage. Also it gives you a large amount of mobility very early on. You donā€™t get the high jump until level 7.
Burst Propulsion pairs extremely well with the high jump. Itā€™s not too hard to predict where a high jumping thorn is going to land. Anyone that has been across a high jumping thorn enough knows exactly when and where to strike. You can use burst propulsion to change the direction you are traveling in mid-air, really making you hard to pin down for the enemy. A good marquis can hit you while your traveling in the air without too much trouble, and Burst Propulsion can prevent him from predicting your air travel accurately.
Finally, one of Thorns greatest weaknesses is being slowed. If you are slowed, and you are close to another enemy, especially a melee character, it is likely you will die. Burst Propulsion is not affected by slows, and can get you far enough away to wait out the slow and run out alive. I know a good pheobe will use her teleport right next to you to slow you, then activate her ultimate while you try to get out of it. Without burst propulsion, you will probably get out alive, but heavily damaged and easy to pick off by anyone with a few good shots.
This is coming from someone who has used Thorn extensively. I have over 1500 player kills, and about 430 deaths. I have used both burst propulsion as well as draw strength extensively. In all my experience I have found more useful situations to use burst propulsion with than I have draw strength. Iā€™ll admit there are few better feelings than killing a Miko through another character, but my total deaths have gone down ever since I started using burst propulsion. Especially since most people know how to deal with Thorn nowadays, unlike when it was first released and nobody could pin her. I rarely have moments where I canā€™t hit the person I want because I am being bodyblocked, neither by a enemy, or a friendly.
Ultimately I feel draw strength is good to take in some situations, but if you play the frontlines aggressive thorn I play, Burst Propulsion is much more useful. I play a lot of incursion myself, and I never find myself in need of draw strength any more than a small moment in a match maybe, but I use burst propulsion throughout the whole match. A fun tactic to use on someone, jump behind them while they are facing you, use burst propulsion midjump to put yourself where they were facing, and go nuts on their unprotected back. They always turn around expecting to find you land at what was once their back. Have gotten many kills with this strategy.

#23

After 350+ games and 150+ of those with Thorn, yes.

#24

I go draw strength because the times I die with Thorn are when I get stunned, over extwnd, or just get sloppy.

While I rarely get two battleborn in one shot I often get many minions in one shot and the body block proof shots also matter.

Iā€™ll skip it in capture because of that reason but in meltdown and invitation Thorn has some of the best wave clear with blight, volley, and draw strength.

Burst will rarely save me from a stun

#25

Burst wont save you from a Galilea stun at full HP with her OP sword beams (they need to make it start at 0 damage at 0 range and go up to 100% damage at X rangeā€¦ itā€™s stupid broken how fast they can kill you.) but when a Gali is just swinging her sword at you, she wont kill you in the stun. Burst Propulsion gives you the room you need to get away from her and live but draw strength wonā€™t help in that situation.

Also Blight is the only wave clear you need lol. Iā€™ve stopped using anything else for wave clears because nothing else is needed :stuck_out_tongue:

But whatever, too each their ownā€¦ ultimately it doesnā€™t matter what you choose as long as it works for you, which is what I was hoping to achieve with my future edited guide but idk if I will ever get around to it.

#26

I think one of my favorite moments is thanks to burst propulsion.
I was playing a game of incursion on overgrowth, and it was a really close match. The other team was beating us with kills, but we were effectively holding them away from our sentry. It was a defensive match for us most of the game. The other team consisted of a Galilea, rath, Toby, kleese, and Montana. On my team we had Oscar Mike went 7/5, a rath that went 3/16, a Benedict that went 4/4, a Miko that refused to heal and went 1/12, and me as Thorn and I went 13/2.
Both the Toby and Montana knew how to play smart, and cause us a lot of trouble without getting themselves killed. The Galilea and rath ran together the whole match and would tag team individuals, and for groups Galilea would use her big pull, and rath would spin to win everyone slowed inside the sigil. The kleese spent most of game trying to backdoor us for most of the match, but our Benedict kept a good eye on him, so he only got the sentry shields down once. Unfortunately that once they got our sentry down to 70.
The rest of the match was a big power struggle in the middle area. Finally there was six minutes left on the clock. The other team still had a full health sentry, and we had the damaged one from kleeseā€™s backdoor. The Galilea and rath were close to respawning, and I had a great idea. If Kleese could backdoor us, I could do the same to them. So I used burst propulsion to jump the cliff on their side, took out the thumper turret, and shot a few arrows at the sentry. It didnā€™t do anything gamechanging to the sentry, but it accomplished what I wanted it to. I got the attention of two people from the other team. The Galilea and the rath. The two people who had killed more of my teammates than anyone else, and the other teams biggest pushers.
They ran up to me, thinking they would take care of me real easily. So I jumped off the cliff, and then immediately jumped back up it while they followed me blindly. They looked so sad when they turned and realized I was back up the cliff. So they ran all the way around and came back straight for me. This time the rath followed me while the Galilea stayed at the top. I ran to my teammates, and we quickly killed the rath. I jumped the cliff again. Destroyed the thumper turret again, and the Galilea quickly can after me again. This time she had kleese following her. Neither of them followed me this time, but they both stood on that cliff watching me. So I just shot some arrows at them for a little bit. The kleese ran off after a few hit him, but the Galilea stood her ground. When she realized her sentry was taking damage she went back to front lines.
I killed the middle thralls in record time, someone else grabbed the thrall from our base, and I jumped back up the cliff.
Guess who came running. The Galilea and newly respawned rath. I distracted them for a little bit, and by that point it was too late. Their sentry was overrun by minions, thralls, and my team. I effectively pulled multiple people off their frontlines, and none of them accomplished a thing. It was vastly entertaining actually. I didnā€™t do any sentry damage at all, but they were so worried I would backdoor damage their sentry, they didnā€™t spend any time defending their front door.

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