Another Ye Olde Homeworld Player's View on Remastered

First and foremost, I’d like to heartily thank Gearbox for putting in the effort to make Homeworld and Homeworld 2 work on modern systems without requiring us to go through contortions, ritual sacrifices, and various demonic exchanges in order to play. I only wish Cataclysm could have received the same treatment… maybe someday. Here’s hoping that somebody, somewhere had a backup copy of Barking Dog’s stuff and just forgot about it all these years. Anyway, it’s been a long time coming and we all appreciate being able to play one of the best strategy games ever made (and its good-but-not-as-great second sequel) headache-free.

That said…

Remastered is not Homeworld. Not even close. The core mechanics are completely different. This is Homeworld 2 with a thin veneer of Homeworld pasted over top… and I can’t believe anyone who’s played both games would ever claim they were close enough to make this work. Matter of fact, folks tried, and tried hard, for years after HW2 came out to do exactly this, and no one ever quite succeeded.

So… A for effort, but I’d rather not say what grade I’d assign for execution.

Some of us got way, way too into Homeworld once upon a time. Some of us modded this game, for our own enjoyment or for public release. We know the mechanics inside and out. We’ve memorized most of this stuff. We theorycrafted fleet compositions and tactics in our heads for years. We sifted through the game files to research every secret and use it to squeeze the best we could out of our game. Some players performed amazing feats, such as the all-capture playthroughs, the all-fighter playthroughs, the no-loss playthroughs, which required intimate knowledge about features which are no longer present. Some of us poured over the game lore and even wrote some fiction, and some of the debates we had over retcons from Homeworld to Cataclysm to HW2 were legendary. We know Homeworld like we know ourselves. We were always going to be hard to please if anything changed… and boy, has it ever changed.

Some things had to be different in order for the game to function on a different engine. I mourn kami/salvage and the other fabulous tricks that made Singleplayer so infinitely replayable, but… well, the classic is still there for me to play if I want to, with all of its quirkiness intact. And I will play it. Way, way more than I’ll play Remastered.

Reason #1 is the HW2 interface. It was clumsy and unsightly in 2003; it’s clumsy and unsightly now. Homeworld’s UI was clean, simple, and most importantly for a game relying so heavily on its visuals… invisible. Unless you commanded it to appear, the UI buggered off completely and let you have an unimpeded view of spaceships flying around and shooting each other. That was something no other RTS had done, and to the best of my knowledge no other has since (even Cata had more screen clutter than HW did). For some reason, the art department here decided to make the HW2 UI even bigger and even more awkward for Remastered, and that really isn’t helping. 50% of my view is interface. Yuck.

What really makes me scratch my head, though, is the entirely avoidable decision to completely alter the ships’ stats, from their prices and build times through their speed, armor, and firepower. A brief list off the top of my head:

  • The default ship caps. Can’t quite figure a reason why they’d need changing if the intent was to remain as close to HW as possible.

  • Destroyers should be slightly faster than ion cannon frigates, but less agile (missile destroyers should be slightly slower). That was a deliberate choice by the original devs, so that destroyers could keep pace with frigate formations. Now they’re slower, and I can’t quite figure out why.

  • Drone frigates should deploy 24 drones, not 12, and they should not time out and automatically recover but rather remain in place until destroyed or manually deactivated.

  • Cloaked fighters should not have a charge bar, but rather their cloak should increase the rate at which the ship consumes fuel. Since fuel was removed, I can see why that’s changed, because infinite cloaking with no drawback would be… mildly broken.

  • Heavy corvettes should be waaaaay more durable. Multiguns should be faster. Minelayers are hopeless with the HW2 mechanics, so let’s just forget them. Light corvettes… okay, I have to admit I’m grateful they’re slightly more viable, because they always sucked. Salvage corvettes are too squishy, and repair corvettes do not follow their repair targets properly.

  • Frigates. Oh goodness, frigates. They should not die that quickly to anything short of 40+ bombers or 10+ ICFs (this was a huge complaint about HW2 when it came out, and resulted in Relic almost doubling most frigate armor values… and they were still made of tissue paper). Frigate armor should be buffed until they are roughly in line with their HW1 performance level (until they’re not expendable junk units). Support frigates should be faster, and like the repair corvettes they do not follow their targets properly. Assault frigates should be somewhat stronger against other capitals, and much (much) weaker against fighters. Drones/DFGs were the antifighter frigates, not assaults, and even those relied on corvette and missile destroyer support to be really effective since the DFG had no weapons and the drone frig was vulnerable to losing its drones.

  • Sensors array should reveal the entire map, not just have an unusually long visual detection radius. Could have been solved by giving it HW2’s scout ping ability (it’d have been different, but closer to the original unit than what we got).

For reference and cheekiness, all the buildable Homeworld ships:

-Scout: 35RU (build time: 12)
-Interceptor: 55RU (build time: 18)
-Attack Bomber: 85RU (build time: 20)
-Defender: 65RU (build time: 9)
-Cloaked Fighter: 85RU (build time: 45)
-Defense Fighter: 85RU (build time: 20)

-Light Corvette: 135RU (build time: 22)
-Repair Corvette: 150RU (build time: 20)
-Salvage Corvette: 220 RU (build time: 30)
-Heavy Corvette: 250 RU (build time: 30)
-Multigun Corvette: 225 RU (build time: 30)
-Minelayer Corvette: 295 RU (build time: 45)

-Support Frigate: 425 RU (build time: 65)
-Assault Frigate: 575 RU (build time: 60)
-Ion Cannon Frigate: 650 RU (build time: 60)
-Drone Frigate/Defense Field Frigate: 800 RU (build time: 75)

-Destroyer: 1350 RU (build time: 150)
-Missile Destroyer: 1500 RU (build time: 175)
-Carrier: 2000 RU (build time: 350)
-Heavy Cruiser: 3700 RU (build time: 420)

-Resource Collector: 650 RU (build time: 60)
-Resource Controller: 680 RU? (build time: 65)

-Probe: 30 RU (build time: 6)
-Proximity Sensor: 50 RU (build time: 6)
-Sensors Array: 800 RU (build time: 80)
-Research Ship: 700 RU (build time: 60)
-Cloak Generator: 500 RU (build time: 60)
-Gravwell Generator: 800 RU (build time: 60)

These values could have been copy/pasted. Speeds could have been calculated easily by selecting a single ship as a baseline and every other as a percentage of that (ie Mothership at 50m/s, Scout at 2000% of Mothership or 1000m/s). Damage and armor would have taken more work since HW2’s interactions between different weapons and ship classes were… odd… but it could have been balanced out correctly without too much trouble. It’s curious that these details were overlooked when the intention was purportedly to re-create Homeworld as true to original form as possible. I might just be a dirty nit-picker.

Research should also not cost RUs. It should take longer to complete, but it should not cost RUs. There’s nothing in HW2’s coding that’s stopping you from just making all the research items cost 0. Research was balanced fine before it had a price tag, and the original game is not made stronger by retconning in that HW2 mistake. Having only one available research track despite building all 6 ships is enough of a limitation.

I haven’t tried the campaign in Remastered yet. I’m sure I’ll have some things to say about that when I get around to it. I wish I could say I was thoroughly impressed by what I’ve seen so far, but frankly the only improvements are in the visuals and everything else has gone downhill. Owing, again, mostly to the clumsiness of HW2 and not to lack of effort on Gearbox’s part. This is a ball that Relic itself dropped all the way back when they abandoned the Dust Wars concept, and I’m not terribly surprised that nobody has managed to pick it up since.

A few issues I’ve noted thus far, important because some of them are bugs (others are just minor irritants):

  • Super-capital ships in particular have a great deal of difficulty maneuvering in the vicinity of the Mothership. As in, they won’t, and instead will proceed several kilometers away from the MS (direction inconsistent; my Destroyers bolted ahead and left; my heavy cruisers bolted straight up and out of the MS’ visual range) before maneuvering normally no matter where they were directed to go. Encountered on Hyperspace Arena.

  • When zooming in on the Mothership, carriers, support frigates, and drone frigates, the “fighter drive active” noise gets stuck and persists until the player zooms in on a unit with a sound that overrides it (I’ve found that heavy corvettes and light corvettes work well for this). Also encountered on Hyperspace Arena.

  • Alt focus simply does not work from the sensor manager when attempting to focus friendly units. Resources can still be alt focused. Alt+bandbox does not work either. Unit selection and bandbox unit selection work, but inconsistently; sometimes it refuses to work until I’ve exited and re-entered the sensor manager. Also encountered on Hyperspace Arena.

  • Harvesters do not seek out additional resources when their assigned patch is depleted, even if additional resources are within sensor range of a friendly unit such as a probe or scout. Instead, they dump their partial loads (incidentally, the orientation of harvesters on resource dropoff is wrong- the Kushan harvester should dock with its belly facing the hull of the ship it is delivering its load to, rather than facing the opposite dropoff pad- minor detail, I know) and enter parade formation with the nearest Mothership/carrier until re-issued the harvest command.

  • Support frigates and repair corvettes do not consistently follow repair targets after they complete repairs, but rather must be re-issued the repair command in order to follow.

  • Ships do not consistently maintain their assigned formations when issued orders to defend or attack.

  • Formations must be selected by group number or bandbox; selecting one unit will not select the entire formation as it should. This makes use of sub-group formations awkward and difficult to micromanage as was common practice in Homeworld.

  • Force attack seems to not exist.

  • Sphere formation does not surround the targeted ship in either guard or attack mode.

  • Wall formation forms incorrectly (should be top to bottom, left to right- instead ships seem to form up in a diamond pattern).

  • Tactics are just… useless. Problematic because some gameplay styles, especially in SP, rely on use of tactics to prevent ships from firing on enemies.

  • Corvettes and defenders do not circle-strafe enemy units correctly when maneuvering independently.

Overall… eh. It’s pretty (very pretty!) but it’s not Homeworld. It’s Homeworld 2 wearing a slightly-too-tight Homeworld suit. I am, however, loving the ability to play Homeworld in its original form without first making burnt offerings to the Windows Gremlins.

39 Likes

I can’t agree with this post more. I think you articulated excellently my own impressions. You must be one of the old vets, though maybe past my prime in the old days.

The Collector’s Edition is gorgeous, and I’m grateful for all the effort Gearbox poured into the game, but you’re right. It isn’t quite Homeworld, and most of us know that game better than the back of our hands.

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While I completely understand that adjustments have both been made and at the same time, may have been made in error or without needing to do so, I’d spare the entire topside drivel and berating rambling. Gearbox didn’t sit down and decided to deliberate screw someone over who had dissected a 15 year old game to it’s most basic script triggers - that insinuation is both inane and pointless.

That aside: Balancing is an aspect that can (and given Gearbox track record) will be addressed. Yet, as all balancing goes. not because of a day #1reaction, but after sufficient data has been collected. Feedback, especially where technical and from knowledge, is valueable for that regard. Keep it coming, aggregate your findings, make processing easier by sorting these findings into categories resembling those in game (Corvettes, Frigates, Caps, etc; modules, research … you know what I mean) and you are a viable and valueable asset towards improving the existing product, and you are helping yourself towards achieving the game that you want to play, rather than the Classic game.

Veiled accusations and the dismissive speech from te high horse of a veteran are not conducive to that or to having your post reacted to constructively. You open up emotional and destructively, and you have great length. It might be just enough reason to abandon your post…

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This was very well written, and I appreciate the critical feedback without the “blame GBX” themes that have been popping up. Keep in mind the multiplayer is in beta and needs a lot of work with balancing, and I think your post goes a long way in getting GBX started. :smile:

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I would say this very well articulates most of the problems with HW:R’s adaptation of HW1 right now. The gameplay is really not even close. Values wise at least, a lot of the current problems and inconsistencies are quite easily fixable, so I am hopeful that Gearbox can make the HW1 races have values a lot closer to HW1 - there’s clearly a lot of demand for that. I too feel like a copy/paste job might have been sufficient in that area.

Then it’s a case of repairing some of the more broken mechanics. Formations are effectively completely pointless right now, so those will definitely need to be patched up somehow.

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If you really thought they would be able to transport HW1 to (modified) HW2 engine and retain all the HW1-specific gimmicks, then your disappointment is probably a bit unjustified. If I remember correctly, the whole targeting, hit and collision detection was changed from HW1>HW2. So, I am actually surprised how well it seems to work in the HW1 campaign so far.

Whether or not it was a good move to combine the two games in one engine is probably worth discussing about.
But in my opinion you still expected too much by not anticipating some huge changes. But I understand that change is uncomfortable when it’s about the things you like and are used to.
Tampering with 15 year old ship stats may sound attrocious to you, but if the whole package (including the combined multiplayer!) actually profits and the experience is similarly enjoyable to most of the players, so what? Most people (me included, as a long time Homeworld player) probably won’t even notice 90% of what you criticized.
However, I can agree that the product still needs quite some work in tuning and bug fixing.

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If gearbox read 1 thread in this whole forum, it should be this one. Well written, completely agree. I’ve been playing Homeworld 1 on and off for 16 years, I’m an old veteran. I accept that this game is in the HW2 engine, which means different research and no fuel, that’s fine, but core parts of the game that could have been made to work properly, do not. Old balance has been forgotten or ignored, and a lot of core functions are just plain missing when they could have been implimented.

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Very well said. As much as I respect Gearbox for the work they did on Remastered and as much as I expected some mechanics to be lost, the release showed me that too much was lost. Graphically it’s a feast, but that’s all. I heavily second your point regarding the interface, I wish we could scale it down further or, better, get a minimalist way of displaying it.

I’m hoping on a patch for formations, at least. In my wildest dreams, ballistics are patched back in. I’m not sure how shackled by the MP design they are at this point, but I really hope all the points you made are going to get at least looked at.

I don’t want to sneer at the work done by the devs, it is outstanding in every department but gameplay. Please consider our feedback regarding mechanics that are, like Homeworld’s incredible story, still very interesting and relevant today.

Edit : I might be badly mistaken here, but I think they might have run out of time. Between the rapid evolution of the builds we saw during the last 4 weeks and the amound of bugs remaining, this feels a bit rushed out. Here’s hoping that with great sales, they plan on supporting it and listening to our feedback. They have the hw2 source code and can achieve what generations of modders couldn’t.

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Well said. :smile:

I get the feeling all of these changes were done just so people could have HW1 vs HW2 multiplayer games.
This was a very bad idea.
They should have kept these two games completely separate. Homeworld 1 is so much different than its sequel.

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Multiplayer NEEDS to have a different balance then the Campaign AND the player VS cpu-skirmish. The story is about the journey, not the unit-balance against other races, plaa, plaa plaa…

I also fully understand HW1 => HW2 engine swap and its “issues” but there are seriously lacking things right now.

As many have said, formations need to come back, they just dont work. At all. That, that is sacred.

Also, Kadeshi, those guys were SCARY (!!!) back in HW1, now, ~dozen swarmers and then… ? Another dozen and… VERY dissapointed.

Drone frigates, need more drones. And the drones need that chaingun back too.

To Gearbox: Wow, just wow! You guys did AMAZING job, but this game, this game needs to PERFECT. Not even amazing will cut it. Only perfection will earn you the true respect of us veterans and the HW-community. The best pert, its doable.

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UI elements are too large, like they’re designed for duplo playing babies. The same goes for the mouse cursor - TOO LARGE. DUPLO.

Also, pressing ‘R’ or ‘B’ to bring up research or build menus also makes the RU meter appear - which is fine while the research or build windows are open. But, after exiting those windows, the RU meter doesn’t disappear along with them. This makes playing the game require the incessant chore of pressing Backspace to cycle through UI removal settings to reset the screen to having no UI elements visible.

And the game doesn’t remember what UI setting is used, so every game starts with UI obstruction that needs to be removed, and that just shouldn’t be the case.

If the option to conceal the UI is available in the game, then it’s required that the game functions in a way that lets it be actually played like that - otherwise the option to remove UI elements is misleading, because the game won’t let you use it while keeping the game fully functional.

The size of UI elements, and their constant presence take away from the atmosphere of space, and completely change the experienced sense from the original Homeworld.

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I tried to say exactly this in another post, but well, you said it in an excellent manner.

I absolutely agree with everything you said. Like I said in another thread, this is more like Homeworld 1 ported to Homeworld 2 Remastered. It’s an AWESOME game on it’s own, but it’s not what we expected.

“Well, devs said about the engine change 2 months ago, you should have expected it.”

Yeah, I expected it, and that’s why I’m not filled with rage right now, and actually managed to have a blast playing it (ten hours straight, best day of my life!). I expected it since 2 months ago. But originally, the months prior, ALL OF US thought that they were gonna update the original engine to retain all the features that makes HW1, well, HW1.

I can’t stop thinking that GBX focused their efforts on the MP balancing with all the changes they made to ship stats and mechanics when, like swatti said, it wasn’t completely necessary to mess with the (beautiful) SP campaign. Hell, games like Call of Duty actually have separate binaries for both MP and SP, and certain weapons behave REALLY different in MP. They could have done that for the sake of a nice MP experience without sacrificing messing with the SP aspect.

I’m forced to point out, though, again, that I had a blast playing the game, it’s awesome, it’s amazing. I don’t want a refund, I don’t want to burn down GBX. They did a whole lot of effort and put a lotta love in this. They need to urgently revise a lot of things and bugs, and I’m sure they will do it. But I think the decision to port HW1 to the HW2 engine AND ALSO balance races when it wasn’t completely necessary was a terrible idea.

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Yap we all agree on that we agree. It’s not really our beloved Homeword. The things we’re asking for are probably impossible though otherwise they would have surely implemented them themselfes. I haven’t checked in the file structure yet but I’m sure the remastered games and the mp beta are somewhat the same game. So it could become confusing

and irretating to the newcomers in homeworld to play the campaign properly in hw1 style while the mp is a mix hw2.5 … It would also probably requireing whole coding changes again…

The best option would be to build an entirely new engine for Hw3 and getting it right from the beginning in Hw1 stlye. And for skirmish and the hoster an option to choose between hw1 gaming stlye or hw2 playstlye or perhaps even something better and new… So that those that prefer Hw2 gaming stlye also be satisfied…

Ps: force attack is in hold down “ctrl or alt” & “shift” together. Already tested it and it does work…

Agree with OP
Also i would like to adress some suggestions:

  • HW1 Frigates health > they are the core of hw1 now they are just large corvettes, they need a huge buff on their HP, 100% or such, no matter what it costs, build time, rus, less firepower, whatever, im more into less firepower balancing.

  • Support frigates > sooooo useless right now, capital ships are getting destroyed too damm fast, and those suports take forever to stick into a ship to repair, result, you never really repair anything, i just gave up building them, worthless right now, my suggestion is make them do an area of effect heal, when i saw the german gameplay video i though they were doing that to be honest, they had that white AOE mark, i would also suggest a maximum effect, like a ship can be affect by the AOE heal of only 2 or 3 supports.

  • Cruisers (all of them) > they are OP, it is all about cruisers, get a cruiser, upgrade it, GG, the firepower just make them bulldozers, there are just a few counters to a cruiser, like a huge laser corvette swarm and of course another cruiser.

Also i would like to point a huge problem right now, HW1 can’t be upgraded, so if you are playing with a HW1 race and don’t rush you are pretty much done, cuz in no time the enemy will get upgraded ships and totally destroy you, and if they get a cruiser, forget about it, you can toss a full capital ship fleet into it, you will lose.
Yesterday i played a 1v1 Kushan vs Vaygr, i got a lot of frigs, assaults and ions plus 70 scouts, ran into him, started to win the battle, i had way more ships, but he slowly started to turn it in his favor and i lost in the end, cuz he upgraded his heavy missiles frigs, and even though i were in full production (assaults and ion on carrier, destroyer and ions on mothership non stop), and had 7k in the bank i couldn’t do anything about it, i got out teched by him, my frigs had half the HP his frigs had.
Maybe if HW1 get a 5% buff HP on all ships per research ship built, idk, might work.
If things keep up like this i got to say that i’m giving up playing HW1 races, even though they are my favorite, cuz they are pretty much unviable on 15+minutes games.

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IMO balancing the HW1 ships for use in MP against the HW2 ships is not going to work out in the end. HW1 was very nearly perfectly balanced… but a lot of that owed to the fact that the two playable factions were nearly identical. That resulted in a consistent experience between MP and SP without requiring any major changes to the units between game modes.

HW2, likewise, used exactly the same units in MP and SP (although IIRC the enemies in SP mostly did not receive upgrades). While the SP experience was more variable on account of the dynamic difficulty (HW by contrast had scaled difficulty, but adjusted it between a fixed upper and lower limit, whereas HW2 just kept scaling up- I remember running into over a dozen battlecruisers in M12 before the patch when jumping in with a full fleet), the MP side was extremely consistent.

Now we have ships that can’t be upgraded facing off against ships that can, in MP. That is usually not a recipe for success… I believe that Gearbox can manage it, with some effort, but in doing so they almost certainly will end up changing the way the SP game behaves. Some ships from R1 and R2 will need to be made stronger in order to survive into the late game against upgraded Hiigaran and Vaygr units, while at the same time receiving different nerfs that will keep them from overwhelming the not-yet-upgraded H/V units in the early game (I do not envy the person who has to do that job, and my hat is off to them just for trying). There are not two separate sets of ships for MP and SP- they’re all the same files- so if Gearbox buffs R1/R2 frigates for the late game in MP, while nerfing R1/R2 corvettes and fighters for the early game, that will make early SP missions more difficult as the player will be facing stronger enemy frigates in quantities they are not yet able to build (which would be especially troublesome since assault frigates are way more powerful against fighters than they should be).

That probably won’t bother people who exclusively play MP, but it will bother anyone who plays SP a lot- instead of a consistent experience, it’ll be constantly changing as MP balance tweaks occur. Why is that a big deal? Because many Homeworld players, myself included, planned out their playthroughs beforehand in order to achieve specific results. Strike craft only playthroughs, no build playthroughs, no kill playthroughs (excepting mission-critical targets that could not be captured instead)… think of a set of conditions to impose on gameplay, and someone probably did it. Change the SP balance even slightly, and lots of things become impossible that were previously just barely possible- and then there will need to be mods to bring the game balance back closer to vanilla Homeworld.

Again… I don’t want to disparage Gearbox for what they’re trying to do here. It is wonderful to see this series come back from the grave like this- it is more than anyone ever hoped for. That we’re going to get another whole game in due time makes it that much sweeter- it is way, way more than can be said of many other favorites from the same era. Lots of people, myself included, thought that Homeworld died with HW2. Pretty much anything that happens from here out is a step in the right direction- as I said, Homeworld is still there whenever I want to play it, thanks to Gearbox making it Win7 friendly. That alone would have been good enough for me, because I’ve had precisely zero luck getting the game to run properly up until now on this machine. I’m also more than content to hang around and salivate over every scrap of Shipbreakers info just like everyone else- and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest that Relic isn’t making it. Relic didn’t make Cataclysm either, and that turned out awesome.

It is worth saying, and I should have said this to begin with, that Remastered is a very good game taken on its own- just like HW2 was a very good game taken on its own. The trouble is that Homeworld was just that much better than HW2 was- and I’m unconvinced that Remastered can ever be as good, let alone better, no matter who is working on it, because it can only ever be as good as its bones are. But even knowing that… you cannot expect to release a game titled “Homeworld Remastered” and expect nitpicky folks like myself not to use Homeworld as a standard to judge it by. It’s a damn tough act to follow.

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I’m optimistic that Gearbox is listening and will address many of these issues over time. We should also not forget that the modding support with Steam Workshop could allow for intrepid modders to totally revamp the game to their liking. Homeworld Remastered Original Flavor if you will.

Just wanna add up some testing i just did on hostilities end

HIigaran (me) vs Expert Kushan (CPU) - went for full interceptors followed up by torpedo frigates rush, upgrading it, rushed the CPU strike craft with 14 squads, lost 2 squads, won the fight, moved out 5 torpedos setting up the rally point near the enemy, by the time i got there CPU had a single ion frigate, I completly owned it, a walk in the park, easy.

Kushan (me) vs Expert HIigaran (CPU) - tried out frigate rush, maxed out scout 70 and started to build frigates, rushed my scouts into CPU strike craft, lost half of my scouts and won the battle, moved 4 assault frigates and 2 ions into him, when i arrived he had 1 destroyer and 2 torpedos, and just got a shipyard, i got completly detroyed wasnt even a fight CPU facerolled me.

Kushan (me) vs Expert Hiigaran (CPU) - tried out corvette rush, since firgs didn’t worked, did the same, maxed out scout 70 and started to build vettes, rushed my scouts with a few vettes into CPU strike craft, lost 1/3 of my scouts and won the battle, moved forward with like 10 light vettes and 8 heavy, by the time i got there he had 1 destroyer, 1 flak and 1 torp, this time no shipyard, i got wrecked again.

Now it is pretty clear to me how unbalanced this game is at current state, i’m a pro HW1 and an avarage HW2 player and i can easily take down expert hw1 with hw2, and got owned hard by hw2 playing as hw1.

Also let’s add the fact that this scenario (rushed game) suposuly should be in HW1 favor, since they can build 2 things at once on each ship and doesn’t need to build module, and still huge disavantage, now on late game HW2 can get upgrades to the ships, and that makes it even worst for HW1.

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I wonder if tweaks are going to make it fixable. Maybe the “answer” is to do HW1 vs. HW1 and HW2 vs HW2 games.

Yes, considering how much I loved the Homeworld gameplay I’m definitely holding off on this one until it can be made more like it was.

I’m playing hostiles ends with Hiigaran against hw1 players today on MP, man there is no fight, they doesnt have a chance, balance is THAT BAD! I feel bad for winning so easily, such unfair fight.
Yesterday i were doing the Kushan most of the games were neck to neck battle, till 15 minutes, when they pulled out upgrades, or if i managed to kill the enemy main combat fleet before 15 minutes then i could win.