Like just a way to have more skill, like in his lore his big guts sword gets kinetic energy.from his regular swords attacking, so basically have him have to attack to gain that long range he has on catylyclasmic smash
Going off his lore, give him buffs to basic melee when skills are on cooldown. Axiom and Praxis store energy until released by Precept so maybe his base melee is buffed when Catalytic Smash isn’t on cooldown. That would give him decent damage and force him to save skills for finishing enemies or emergency escape.
Definitely, a main issue is have with the smash attack is it has both range and width, I would make sense to have to gain energy to get that range, and waveform smash would get used more with this change, another thing is catalytic smash has a little much with knockup, silence, and damage (your idea fixes that and makes rath less 1 dimensional)
The damage on it isn’t that great. It’s about average at best and has no damage amps to it with his helix choices. It’s really just used for the CC when I use him.
Oh ok, real quick it does only have the maximum potential of two CC on smash right. Also any ideas on how to make his tier one mutation helix better
At most it can only have the two CC effects. To make Concussive Smash better is a simple fix: make it so that it still does a knock up if the target wasn’t by Crossblade recently. That knock up is probably one of the best things Rath has and just removing it is a horrible idea. If he kept the knock up against targets not hit with Crossblade he would be a much more versatile character.
A simple but effective choice, but doesn’t it shorten the range dramatically
Then that would interact with his level six helix to increase the range on Catalytic Smash, making it more viable and making him less one dimensional in the process.
Perhaps the specific hit box and animation for Concussive Smash only are available shortly after using crossblade. It would lose the knock up effect and range for a few seconds after using crossblade but otherwise would function as a normal Catalytic Smash.
Very true, how about zealous smash, my idea is enemies killed shortly after hit by smash get the cooldown reduction started
I think that that helix definitely needs to be redone because the damage on Catalytic Smash just isn’t enough to guarantee kills for the cooldown effect to proc enough. As it stands now Soften Target is a by far superior choice.
Maybe something like every enemy hit by Catalytic Smash reduces the cooldown of Dreadwind by .5 seconds would work well.
Yes that too, any other suggestions you have for raising his skill floor
Yeah that works, as of now his passive makes it seem as if his squishyness is counteracted by lifesteal, but it really aint
Unfortunately, I doubt that Rath’s playstyle will ever get changed, since he is labeled as “easy”. Although his playstyle may be “one dimensional” it can be quite effective depending on your team and build.
As for his helix options, Concussive Smash is very strong as it is, and it has great synergy for a straight assassin build, so I don’t think it should be improved. Consider the synergy of Concussive Smash with this build. At lvl 2 Parabolic Blade is chosen so that even if the returning projectile hits, they still get marked.
At lvl 4 Catalytic Flash is chosen so that after you stun an enemy and hit them with your ult, they will still be silenced when they get out. Furthermore, you can silence enemies if you missed the stun but need the silence (imagine taking someone out of their skill for example, but you missed the crossblade).
At lvl 6, Catastrophic Smash doubles the range of Concussive Smash. At lvl 8, Energetic Projection doubles the effective range of Crossblade making it easier to hit multiple enemies. These two combined make it much more effective at stunning multiple enemies.
At lvl 9, Zealous Smash now makes sense. Since you hit enemies with Crossblade first, and hit with Concussive Smash afterwards, the combo can lead to enemies killed by Catalytic Smash. It also works if used to kill minions as well (from my understanding). With the other build, you use Catalytic Smash to knock up and Crossblade to kill, so Zealous Smash is not very effective for it. On a side note, Crimson Fastness will actually allow Rath to hit once in the air at half damage before hitting with the smash. Late games Catalytic Smash also does 213 damage which isn’t bad.
At lvl 10, Desperate Assault grants that big boost in damage that will be very deadly against stunned enemies.
This build makes Rath extremely deadly since he can actually stun multiple enemies at once unlike Galilea. With team play and Rath’s ult being able to hit multiple enemies, this is very powerful. It is much more limited and difficult to use as a result, which is why it is balanced the way that it is.
If Rath were to get any stronger (in terms of damage), then he would be too good, and there would be significantly less reason to choose certain other melee characters as of now. However, I do feel that his sustainability should be better for the reasons I gave in my previous thread.
Good points here. At the end of the day though, Rath is still just so boring to play IMO
I’ve actually been working on a little piece regarding how I would like to change Rath. I might as well post it here, but first I want to make a couple disclaimers.
I am in no means a balance designer, nor have I ever had any experience balancing a game before. That’s why I’m asking feedback for this in the first place (and please be honest. If something seems too strong or too weak, tell me without trying to sugarcoat it).
This isn’t quite finished yet, and I haven’t proofread anything so far.
It’s currently 12 pages long and I have no intent of making a tl;dr.
I have studied game design for years and even designed a few games, though having such experience isn’t necessary for input like this to be useful. Maybe an idea (in general) might not be good for now, but it could spark great ideas in the future. Furthermore by sharing your ideas, you can receive input from others and with some effort it may turn out into something useful. Also the process itself allows one to get better at doing this in the future.
Some things I’d like to point out. First Deande’s fans start with 15% life steal, and later getting an additional 10% granting her 25% life steal. Deande also gets 50% life steal on Burst Dash at lvl 4.
Rath’s Catalytic Smash has a 17 second cooldown, not 16 seconds.
As for your suggested changes, most of it introduces significant balance problems. I just pointed out 2 posts above, how strong Concussive Smash is, and the synergy it currently has with his helix options.
Waveform Smash is actually quite a viable competing option with the slow, although I’d have to say that the Concussive Smash build is by far the most deadly, but also the most difficult to utilize. What’s important isn’t that it makes it easier to hit, but how it affects formation options due to being able to hit multiple enemies that are spread more apart. Don’t forget that at lvl 6, Catastrophic Smash can be used to double the range if needed.
The idea behind Shield Syphon is that it synergizes with Evasive Maneuvers. If you don’t have any shield, you Syphon it, so that when it breaks you makes your escape with the significant 30% movement speed.
Terror From above is alot more useful than you’d think, although having it give a bigger boost in the held direction would be fair. Spin to Win being the way it is, is also fine. The idea isn’t supposed to just be the small increase in DPS, but having the two hits from an attack that hits all around Rath (basically its for utility).
Crimson Fastness would be great as a quick melee option but not on a 12 second cooldown. Although its fine as it is. With some builds I found Crimson Fastness to actually be a viable option over the silence. Also don’t forget that some options may not seem viable in certain modes, but will work great in others. I have already went over Catastrophic Smash and why it is a great option.
Rath’s damage output on his normal attacks is very fair for what he can do right now. Rath is among the quickest characters in the game, and his attacks have a lot of range making them difficult to miss. Rath trades that power for utility, but still has a strong finisher with the ult.
I already went over Energetic Projection’s and Zealous’s Smash’s synergy with Concussive Smash in my previous post.
Unstoppable Assault could probably use a bigger overshield.
The idea behind the passive changes isn’t bad though I think it is also unnecessary, as long as they fix its values which are currently too low.
I went over the spell build, but there are a lot of problems. 1st, there are too many helix “rules” that are ignored with the helix placements. Second, the build redesigns Rath way too much, even removing the Concussive Smash build which is by far his most deadly build. Furthermore, his normal knock up Crossblade combo is still effective as it is. It should not be made stronger.
Rath is a relatively balanced character right now. Terror From Above could be a bit better, and the Life Steal should definitely be improved, but aside from that, he seems fairly effective.
I love Rath as is, but there are two things I would like to see changed. His secondary attack should be a single blow with a charge up. Slow attack speed but one big slam. DPS should be the same as his melee combo. Second, his quick melee should knock him backwards as well as the opponent.
But why, his secondary is wave clear and finisher for runners, and why would he need a back dash quick melee, the animation would have to change