Anyone else feel like she doesn't do enough

(Master of Eeveelution) #21

Shame about that, many Xbox and PC players wouldn’t have had enough time to unlock and use the later characters, by the time you ere starting we were seeing the high-end character and by the time you finished it was too late to use them.

I disagree about her helix though I see your point. I loved Deande’s mutations though the most commonly used one was the one which I avoided, the level 3 one which added a knock-up to her melee. I think before level 5 (In game) Deande was tough to use but once you unlocked her ultimate she was nigh unkillable, as for her mutations they are where her true power lies. I tried many combinations with Deande’s helix and really focused on certain skills but once I settled on one build I never looked back.

My final build looked like this: (M for mutation)

  1. M
  2. L
  3. L (You already have passive life steal and thrown fans are great for initiating and finishing)
  4. L (Shield recharges while cloaked and life steal is passive from primary and secondary attacks anyway)
  5. M (Uncloaking can be random based on Holotwin’s survival, too much so to rely on)
  6. M (No need for extra Burst Dash damage, my level 10 skill choice is why I focus on Holotwin upgrades)
  7. R (Always initiate with Burst Dash, this increases Blink Storm’s damage output)
  8. R
  9. L
  10. L

Focus on Holotwin upgrades and Burst Dash damage output when Holotwin upgrades aren’t available, Holotwin is your most used tool for both engaging and escaping so the more damage it deals the better. Increasing life and duration are redundant as it usually takes heavy damage anyway and is often destroyed before the duration is up so the more damage it deals the more useful it is when fighting an opponent. Your level 10 choice is important because if you fail to kill with Blink Storrn the extra damage from a decoy or the slow effect if it’s destroyed will ensure that you finish off your opponent, the life steal will help keep you alive during Blink Storm as you can be hit during both wind up and execution, especially by AoE damage.
The level 1 L skill is redundant as all you have to do to dash forward is turn around and deploy then you’ll end up behind your opponent and facing them while your decoy hits them front on, the level 1 R skill is utterly terrible unless you’re playing PvE.

Edit: This link contains her full helix with mutations:

(NightstriderUK ) #22

I think the problem were people think she doesn’t do enough damage, is due to a lot using holotwin as an escape instead of an initiate. I am guilty myself on my 1st try of her, then i re-read her descriptions and used it more often and she puts out great damage. Back attacks are strong, ultimates strong, clone is great and i even found her ranged fans good at hitting crit spots.

There are times you need to assess whether it’s better to use cloak as an opener or escape, but thinking ahead is what she’s about. I also think it’s a great advantage how you can stealth up to people to use ultimate as a surprise attack.

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The only time i use the R option for helix 1 is due to helix 7’s R option. Loads of weakened people who are now easy prey for her Ult.

I admit I am guilty of increasing her decoys HP over damage. I am of the mindset that if it last longer it will chase that fleeing miko while they range attack it. However, I do see your point.

Either way I do hope they don’t buff her. It will allow her to fly under the radar as a underpowered character and people will underestimate her.

(Master of Eeveelution) #24

This has been an excellent discussion relating to Deande. It’s a shame that we are on different platforms, I’d like to have more Deande mains in my community so we can switch who uses her and each learn from one another, she’s currently a very obscure and severely underrated character.

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(Quack858) #25

I thought deande’s holotwin stayed for the entire duration of it and that you only unstealthed at the very end of it or if you used a skill/attack regardless of if your decoy was still alive at that time. that’s what it seemed like to me. Then again I only played her in PVE so…

(Master of Eeveelution) #26

I’m quite fast paced once I decoy so I may have seen it wrong but I’m quite certain that once your decoy dies you automatically come out of stealth. I’m not sure if activating a skill pulls you out of stealth either as I usually either used her dash from stealth as a finisher or went from dash to ultimate, especially after level 7.

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From what I have seen with her decoy and cloak: if you attack or use an ability you will uncloak. I do this a lot while Someone is still fighting my decoy. This usually makes them turn and fight me, leaving my decoy free to attack, hurray double-teaming.

I cannot say for certain that if your decoy is killed that you will uncloak, this is probably because like Slif_One, I am not in cloak long and because my decoy always has increased HP.

On release I hope to be able to go over Deande throughly and create a new thread on here detailing her to help others who may not fully understand her. From what I have seen on this thread thus far, we will have plenty of input from experienced Deande players.

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(Master of Eeveelution) #28

Awesome, I intend to do the same thing lol, perhaps we could work together? I also want to record gameplay for the purpose of showing those who are skeptical or unsure that Deande is a good character and demonstrate effective ways to use her.


This is a great idea. I think having multiple view points is critical for establishing an unbiased foundation. I look forward to it.

(Master of Eeveelution) #30

Awesome, I’ve never done this before so I look forward to it! Anything to broaden my gaming horizons and enhance the experience :slight_smile:

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I am mostly interested in seeing what abilities stack or how they affect each other.

Example; Deande’s holo 20% HP and 25% attack. Assuming this is at Base level. Does this mean that if you choose helix 3 L option (increases thrown fan damage by 18%) or helix 7 L option (increase melee fan damage by 18%) does this increase in Deande’s base damage now carry over to her holo?

I think little effects like this will change how certain players build her.

I am going to have my team record their numbers too with their characters so I can compare and contrast.

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(Quack858) #32

Tbh I actualy like deande a lot. Didn’t play her too much during the beta cos I unlocked her near the end of it and at that point was randoming characters for fun. If you want it I could also help out a bit. Also in regards to the holotwin question, I’m pretty sure since its based off deande’s damage it should actually increase the holotwin’s damage as well. Another thought: since this is from the creators of borderlands I’m pretty sure a lot of this game will have synergy/crazy stacking mechanics.


The more input we have the more accurate the data will be. I cannot wait for the actual release so i can finally start testing these hypothesis.

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(Master of Eeveelution) #34

This is a brilliant question. And a hard one to answer without the facts and proof. I’d guess no, because the Holotwin health and damage is based off Deande’s base stats, the damage increases through her helix are added over her base stats and I’d assume them to be separate values not one stretched out value. Base damage and skill damage for example are two separate values, there are gear pieces that display this, and there is a skill of Deande’s that increases her Holotwin decoy’s damage. I’d say these passive increases only effect Deande and not her decoy, but again this is hard to prove. Even in game, you’re seldom watching the numbers that your decoy is ticking so it will be difficult to answer but so far this is one of the best questions I’ve seen regarding Deande.
Another point to note, Deande has passive life steal but her decoy does not, the level 3 skill that increases her life steal does not effect her Decoy, again skill damage vs base attack damage. However there is a mutator that grants Deande’s decoy life steal, though I wasn’t ever attentive enough to see if the decoy receives this life steal for its own health value as well.
I could be wrong but that’s my theory, can’t wait to prove it right or wrong!

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I think the reason Deande is roughly C tier is because you have to play her a certain way. She’s not that versatile, and the only thing she brings to the table team-wise is her ult, which is really good in team fights. Characters where you have to hang back, and wait for your friends to wittle down enemies so you can go in for the kill just aren’t as viable. Not saying they aren’t viable - I’m saying that there are other characters who can already kill confirm, and a lot more.

She’s a fun character, and I don’t quite think she’s weak, I just think that her role on a team can be filled by more versatile characters.

(ssynesthesia) #36

She is amazing if you can juggle with her.


A mechanic that will likely be taken out.

(ssynesthesia) #38

If its taken out she is trash

Edit: I shouldn’t be so harsh but man… she would be very lackluster without the juggle.

(Master of Eeveelution) #39

I think her “juggle” is severely overrated and is not her biggest appeal. The problem is that people see a Jennerit attacker with the “assassin” tag and think that she plays like Rath, so she’s played like Rath and that’s not the right way to play her. Using her is about outsmarting your opponent not charging in headstrong, that’s how you die then people think she’s weak because she can’t win a head on fight when she’s not supposed to.

(ssynesthesia) #40

She destroys in 1v1 if you can juggle them. That is part of the appeal of being an assassin, winning 1v1s. I agree though that outsmarting the opponent is also a big appeal with her, and outmoving your opponent is also really cool about caldarius. I like how Jennerit requires tactics and awareness to play. Rath CAN just run in there with his ult but without it unless you want to feed you have to be smart about engaging, although he is the most simplistic of them.