Are Legendaries Unfair?

I’m hoping to start a discussion on whether some or all legendaries are unfair/cheap to use in PVP. Others have discussed related topics, like the following thread:

But I think this may justify a new thread. I’ll start with a short story and then move to a few follow-up questions.

Last night I was playing in solo/duo queue and chose Kelvin for the 10th time ever. I had heard that borrowed timer was very effective on Kelvin, so I thought I would try it for the first time. As expected, it was quite effective, and my team ended up winning the game. After the game, one of our opponents entered my party to rebuke me for choosing borrowed timer, claiming this gear choice is cheap and people using it would negatively impact the community.

Now I have a few follow-up questions that I hope will spark an open discussion:

1: Do others think that choosing legendaries in PVP is cheap and therefore people should not do it?

2: Is it only cheap to use specific legendaries? If so, which ones? Some of the most powerful ones seem to be Bola’s Target Finder, Lorrian Skill Spike, Firmware Update 1.51c, Voxis Core (especially with Orendi), Borrowed Timer (especially with Kelvin), and some character specific legendaries like Whiskey’s, Toby’s, and Ambra’s.

3: Does the cheapness/appropriateness of legendaries depend on your opponents? For example, should you not use legendaries if opponents’ levels are <100, or if you recognize the opponents are part of the competitive community and therefore you implicitly assume that you are playing by competitive rules.

I will start by giving some of my thoughts. I played in the recent xbox competitive league that forbid legendaries, so most of my builds don’t have legendaries and I’m fine without using legendaries. But legendaries are clearly a significant part of the game that was intended by the developers. Given this, I think a blanket “yes” to question 1 is extreme and goes against Gearbox’s intended experience. It also dissuades people from playing/farming in PVE, which could negatively impact the number of people interested in playing Battleborn. Personally, one of the many reasons I love Battleborn is I can play PVE to farm legendaries to use in PVP.

Also, I think there are many white, green, blue, and purple gear choices that are as good or better than most legendaries. Of course, choosing legendaries sacrifices early game viability for late game viability. This tradeoff can feel cheap to the opponent if the game goes long, but if your opponents have legendary-heavy builds then you should prioritize dominating the early game.

Of the legendaries mentioned in question 2, I think Bola’s is very powerful on certain characters and borrowed timer seemed to be very powerful on Kelvin. I’m not sure if any are cheap, but if any are, it’s probably them.

For question 3: In service of limiting pub stomping, I usually don’t choose legendaries (especially the strongest ones) if I notice the opponents are newer players.

What do others think?

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Of course they’re not unfair. Not one bit. They should be left the way they are now. Perfectly balanced.

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I too love being unkillable as Kelvin and having Pillarstorm up every 30 seconds as Orendi. Also being able to combine Reyna with the characters I actually play is loads of fun. It’s like playing two characters at once!

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This guy gets it.

Well, if you went by the forum’s method of seeing things…

I’m going by the gbx way of seeing things.

That too…

It appears that my hope for an open discussion about the fairness of legendaries (both generally as well as specific legendaries) will go unfulfilled. Instead, I will get 1 or 2-line sarcasm…:unamused:

edit: Thanks to subsequent folks for ascending the depth of the discussion above these first few posts.

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Nah, we’re just anxious about the Battleplan. It’s all good. I expect full discussion soon.

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Anybody remember the “legendary gear should feel legendary” threads? I do. Gearbox can’t seem to please the players that want strong legendary gear at the same time as those who believe that they are too strong. Hopefully they found a decent balance for the coming update.

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This thread might as well be the battleplan…

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@hamburglar86 I think specific legendaries are the issue, I personally enjoy using legendary gear besides bola’s/SG but that’s for casual gameplay, for competitive based play the rng has to be removed or you lose the competitive spirit in my opinion

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Some are clearly unfair. Some make for pretty fun builds.

I agree that it’s fun running PvE with the intent of gaining better gear for PvP. I like to see it but many people think anything having to do with RNG doesn’t belong in PvP.

I would like to see a Legendary tournament and a non legendary tournament coexist.

Similar to Bodybuilding vs natural bodybuilding. Different stuff is cool for different reasons but everyone has to be on a level playing Field and know going in that it’s Legendaries or not. Not one or the other.

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But Symbiotic Gauntlets is an interesting case. Unlike something like Bola’s that has a completely unique benefit (increasing all damage to an enemy by a large amount after receiving skill damage), it is only quantitatively (not qualitatively) better than cheaper alternatives like this:

This doesn’t seem like rng. SG can basically be replicated by 2 pieces of cheaper gear. Is this still a cheap piece of gear that is not appropriate for competitive play?

1: Do others think that choosing legendaries in PVP is cheap and therefore people should not do it?

If everyone can get the legendary, i dont mind. Everyone can get Bola’s Target Finder, Lorrian Skill Spike, Firmware Update 1.51c, Symbiotic gauntlet.

As long as they dont give more cc or skills they dont have or game breaking powers i dont care.

2: Is it only cheap to use specific legendaries? If so, which ones? when boots of the brute could slow every 3 sec and slow a minion wave using el dragon clap or when ppl could have infinite shield recharge/regen or full inmunity or skill spam.

Dmg amplifications like bolas or symbiotic are just that, extra dmg.

3: Does the cheapness/appropriateness of legendaries depend on your opponents?
Sorry i dont understand the question.

Borrowed timer could become a real problem if a team works around it. In one match deande hollowtwin ulted 2 times then hollowtwined back to safety.

My team didnt die as her team didnt follow up but jesus! A full team stun x2 could have been a team whipe any day.

It would be oky with that if anyone could get it doing pve, Atleast you have the option to use it too. Instead of pray to rngesus.

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I have tried to clarify the OP. Let me know if it’s still unclear.

I personally hate having an uneven playing field. I enjoyed older Halo games where you all start with 1 loadout and its an even scramble to get any sort of advantage. Then games like COD made a system where you get access to better loadouts the higher your level is which just baffled me. I understand it’s a carrot on a stick system to get player to strive to unlock new things but why give someone with more experience an even larger advantage over new players. It seems all games have gone that way since then. This is the main reason I avoid playing destiny. My friend bought it for me so I could play with them and I was doing nothing in PVP because everyone had the Thorn and other amazing weapons.

Now that brings us to Battleborn and their obtainable gear that is able to be used in PVP matches. I still stand by my personal hatred of an uneven playing field but it seems that most legendaries arent much of a noticable issue for me. Of course Toby’s double hug is a pain in the ass or getting instant cooldowns once a minute can really change a game but for the most part I dont see legendaries making or breaking matches. Although I’m not in the competitive scene so this is coming from a solo player for the most part.

If you notice Kelvin pops sublimate when he’s about to die every time, stay away from him and attack from a distance.
Reyna pops a dome shield, rush it and get the weak one out.
I feel if gear like borrowed timer only cooled down a defensive skill then it would be fine. It becomes a problem when it cools down powerful attack skills and ults.
I start to have a problem when it greatly increases the attack damage or attack speed because no matter how smart a player is, if your dying when you poke your head out then it ruins the experience (Bola’s, I’m lookin at you).

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IMO, if you own it and get the shards to use it, then FTW and use it all you want.
Should some things be revisited? Sure, but don’t feel bad about using the gear you’ve got.

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The rng isn’t the effect it’s the obtaining, I’ve spent MANY an hour hunting bola’s and finally got a mid roll…and the reason I mentioned them both was the interaction between the two. Some characters passives proc bola’s which leads to insane damage(like isic for example)

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It is very easy to notice when your opponent gets certain legendaries up and running without checking the scoreboard. I think that is a sign that legendaries are doing just a little bit too much. I’d love for them to be gone.

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