As a Moze Main, I'm pretty irritated with the state of the game

Let’s just get it out of the way:

Yes, I know I could play another character. But, I don’t have 100% complete on the other characters, and I’m just not interested in doing that on the other characters. I did that. I specifically spent the time to get everything 100% on my “favorite” character.

And Gearbox has gone out of their way to admit that they know players are like this. It’s the reason cited for no new vault hunters in the DLC’s.

So, I feel like that lack of scaling to start Mayhem 2.0 was on purpose. I don’t believe this was an oversight. I believe that it was done to ensure that people weren’t going to cheese their way through things with Action Skills, cars, chest farming, and the like.

You don’t have to agree with me. That’s how I feel.

I feel like forcing people who play a specific player to play as if their action skill doesn’t exist, is a garbage way to go about it.

But, they gave us the bandaid that was 300/90, the OPQ, the Yellowcake, and a few other guns that made the idea of not having an action skill tolerable. It still wasn’t great, but it was at the very least: Tolerable.

And then last thursday, without any warning, the guns, and anoint, that most Moze players were using as a crutch, were crushed, and nothing was added in their place, nothing was fixed.

Mayhem 10 feels… “ok” on the other vault hunters, still. But on Moze, it feels worse, since last thursday. My number of viable weapons, and viable anoints shrank. I am either using the 50/150 anoint, or wasting time getting in and out of Iron Bear, without actually using Iron Bear.

In short: Mayhem 10 sucks on Moze. It’s not fun. And if I’m being completely honest? I don’t feel like Gearbox cares much.

You heard our cries to keep the Cartel anoints, and you had to have known that part of that was the 300/90 anoint. If you had asked most of the community what they thought was going to get nerfed, they would have said:


But, not the 300/90 anoint, because when you step it back from those guns, it’s still REALLY strong, but it never felt utterly, and completely broken except on those weapons.

It actually, made guns that weren’t great, really good.

Gearbox knew that people were going out of their way to get / keep / farm that anoint, they knew that it was going to get gutted, and yet chose to blindside the community.

I’m not saying that I magically can’t play the game now, or anything like that. But, I’m saying that Mayhem, 2.0 has been not fun since it dropped, and the first “balance patch” sucked for Moze.

I’m pretty frustrated, and I’m left playing the game less, because it’s not fun. Mayhem 2.0 and the very hard modifiers are already just not something I want to deal with, and now, with the situation that Moze is stuck in, I can just go find something else to do.

I don’t even want to download the new DLC. Going through the DLC on M10 is going to be a slog, so I should probably dial it back.

Which means 99% of what I get during the playthrough, will be something that I have to refarm.

TL:DR - I play Moze, I’m not happy with Mayhem 2,0. I’m not happy that it feels like they didn’t scale Iron Bear on purpose to keep people from cheesing farming for Mayhem 10 gear, I’m not happy with the first balance patch, and I’m just not having fun.


I have no answer that will improve the game for you right now, or perhaps even ever, but the skill rebalance and specifically Action Skill rebalance is coming in the next big patch. I can’t say “go look forward to it” because maybe it won’t fix the game for you. But it’s definitely an area they’ve said they’re going to look at.

If I’m being honest, I don’t know if there is anything that can fix the game for me right now.

I guess I should have known, that immediately after a huge farming type event in the game, they were going to destroy items that you just spent all the time farming for.

Level Cap increases, Changes to Mayhem, and now massive nerfs to guns.

They were crutches. I can admit that. But man, the character feels so underwhelming right now, that they were crutches moze needed.

And, it just feels so very purposeful, that they left Iron Bear off of the list of things they set out to have ready for Mayhem 2.0. I have a hard time believing that they spent all this time prepping for Mayhem 2.0, and no one said:

“Hey guys, we never bothered to make Iron Bear do more damage at mayhem 10, as opposed to having mayhem shut off”.

It feels more like they said:

"Ok, so what are the things that we don’t want people to use to get to Mayhem 10 too fast?

Iron Bear

Ok. Got it. Those will wait"

I want to look forward to the scaling of Iron Bear, I really do, but I’m just miserable with Mayhem 2.0 Maybe I’m wrong, and Splash Moze is still really viable at Mayhem 10, and you just need drops to make it work.

Drops that I haven’t seen, because they require anoints, and the best drops that I saw post M2.0 were 300/90 and 50/150 anoints.

I don’t know. Maybe I’m just tired of the insanity of farming non stop with a <1% chance to see the gun that I want, with the anoint that I want, and the fact that Moze finds herself in this spot where she is so overly needy on perfect anoints, on such a small subset of weapons, that the frustration has just led me to this place:

Where I’m just ready to be done with the game.

As many people have said, the game was touted as having BILLIONS OF GUNS!

They just neglected that you are going to leave 99.9% of those guns laying on the ground because they’re trash.


To keep my Moze viable in M10, I had to go back from a Mind Sweeper com to Bloodletter & Deathless. Using a 50/150 Monarch and Kaoson.

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Also a Moze main and I agree, it’s tough using her. Most people don’t even want to play with a Moze on their team.

I hope the 4th skill tree rumors are true and they give Moze a way to auto-deploy Iron Bear so that we can at least proc our annointments without having to jump-in/jump-out every 10 seconds.

I’ve main moze from the beginning of the game and I couldn’t agree more with you about their attitude towards moze . They truly don’t care about her she probably doesn’t even register as an afterthought with them . I found that teddy bear is worthless and just stop using him and just played her as the soldier she is .

It is agreed among the community that moze is the weakest character and I would bet the least played as the least played character why would they do anything for her ? They will continue to focus on the more popular character and throw bones at moze .

Teddy bear has never been worth the time I’ve had tinks destroy teddy with one blow I’ve stood toe to toe with teddy against each and every enemy and lost each time . Teddy is useless

As a Zane main who’s spent most of the past six or seven weeks playing nothing but Moze, trust me. What goes around, comes around. Moze will definitely see positive changes.

Zane used to be bottom-tier, yeah? Look at him now (even without Seein’ Dead, tbh). Moze is harder to balance because Iron Bear makes it harder to balance (IB is good. Scaling pets is tricky. See FL4K). I’m hoping Gearbox are able to do her justice sooner rather than later though.

I’m with you OP. I play two VH’s. Amara and Moze. I have this odd back and forth with these characters where I play Moze and eventually got frustrated and go back to Amara and the power of Amara fills me with confidence and gives me ideas to go back to Moze where I get frustrated again and go back to Amara.

I prefer Moze most of the time but have gotten so frustrated with various elements of how the class works. Just when it felt like they were making solid improvements to Moze with the Moze specific buffs to make IB worthy…they obliterate everything they did with M2.0. It’s nonsensical and you are right…for whatever reason it feels deliberate. How could it not be? How could they not know that the changes of 2.0 would nullify all the work they did with IB?


You know Action Skill scaling is supposed to come with the same patch that adds the next DLC?

even if they rebalance it , it will probably broke it with another level cap anyway, im pretty sure they will do more since a lot of people think higher level cap mean its getting more difficulty and its really stupid because it gives u more skill point and stretch the number

I feel you, buddy. I’m an Amara Main, and -if not for your same problems- I’m growing weary. Amara is still strong atm, and I’m chasing a Melee/Rough Rider build, I like it too much. BUT… The problems you mentioned are not just “This-specific-VH” related, but affect everyone. First of all farming for things that you know that will eventually be nerfed, and the fact that some build-defining abilities DON’T scale with MH is a real pain in the a**e. For you, it’s IB. For me, it’s melee. Let’s just hope they prove you wrong and fix all this within next DLC. I really look forward to the next DLC, I’m almost finished with 2nd one now. Who knows, maybe they’ll listen to reason (and player base) and make it all fun again… Maybe 4th skill list? :slight_smile:



I can’t get behind this. I know that it’s a new team working on BL3, but all of the different teams across three previous titles were able to scale pets in a way that felt satisfactory. Bloodwing was pretty decent as an offensive tool, DT had an amazing amount of tools to get amazing damage, and I don’t need to mention Jack and Wilhelm.

It is only in this game where you can fully invest in pets and still have them suck, and that is soloely because GB is too tepid with their base damage numbers. Whenever they have buffed pets, they’ve nailed what the community was expecting. It really isn’t difficult, they just don’t prioritize it for whatever reason.

I mean, even though I don’t agree with FL4K’s pets being difficult to balance (even if they’re out all the time, other pets were basically the same), I can at least understand that GB takes the fact that they are independent of most of your action skills most of the time. But IB is an action skill, so why should they have difficulty balancing it?

I know exactly how you feel bud. Moze is my only character. But she’s now the weakest and Iron Bear is as useful as a red light in Grand Theft Auto. Moze at one point was the goddess of death, now she’s Martha Stewart :frowning:


Wilhelm’s pets were a lot like Zane’s though. A lot less autonomous. BL1 is also a very different game (with a very different endgame. I mean, not much of an endgame really, haha. Different. I didn’t not like it).

I suspect IB’s difficulties come from a mixture of a) Auto Bear is maximally designed for co-op, b) the near-mandatory shield skill (it’s always a recommended skill and that’s because it’s so useful - it warps the tree around it) and b) probably classed as a vehicle in terms of the game code. I’m guessing though. There’s also an argument to be made for making regular IB (not Auto Bear) too useful that a Moze player doesn’t therefore benefit with guns. It’s complex to even theorise about because Moze has a relationship with her pet that no other class does.

I’m not saying it can’t be addressed. But something like Mayhem 2.0 won’t have helped either. Whatever plans they might have had, M2.0 will have made them change (if they had any; maybe M2.0 was the original post-launch focus regardless).

I assume you mean more? They just flew around shooting things unless you painted them, when they would focus on that target. They didn’t need much additional input.

Not that I don’t understand what you’re trying to get at, but I just don’t see where the difficulty lies. When I look at IB, I see Krieg and Brick. Yes, Berserk definitely needed a lot of tweaking to be viable endgame, but Krieg was usable in endgame with nothing but a rough rider shield and a rapier if you really wanted.

There have been 3 previous titles, and in all 3 pet scaling was somewhere between OK and pretty damn good. And that was with less pet damage in trees and no anointments or red text effects that worked for pets. Yet in the game that provides more ways than ever before to power up your skills they end up being weaker.

That’s the issue. We’re at month 10 of this game’s life cycle and we’re just now getting scaling for action skills in the Mayhem modes. Even if, for some odd reason, this wasn’t a priority for Mayhem 2.0, it doesn’t excuse not being a priority in the Mayhem 1.5 days. There shouldn’t have been any plans they might have had, they should have had a plan for something this obvious to be implemented as soon as possible.

What’s done is done at this point, but there is nothing so different about this game compared to the others that should make it so much more difficult to get a handle on skill scaling.

They said they were fixing under performing weapons, class mods, shields, and grenades this last patch.

If you think “under performing” Action Skills will be fixed, I got news for you buddy, and a track record to back up my argument :rofl:


TBF, during the few times they have touched action skills, they’ve done a bang up job. They just do it at the worst times.

Fl4k disagrees :wink:

FL4K definitely agrees.

The only bad thing about the pets is that GB scaled then for M3 then immedaitely released M4. If you tried the pets on M3, they were pretty much perfect. Gamma was powerful, but pets could get some kills without it. Attack commands dealt enough damage to be worthwhile. I never got to try my splash command build on M3, but since damage didn’t change I’m positive gunslinger could’ve taken out at least half of Traunt’s health in 1 attack command without debuffs.

GiTM nerf that made nobody really use it anymore?

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