Opinion on Atlas as a manufacturer in BL3. Underwhelming compared to the other manufacturers. The weapons are good and strong currently. Can be used. But they tend to be rather weak compared to the other manufacturers. Could this be due to the homing advantage?
Currently rocking a Q-system (which outperforms the Rebel Yell by a mile), carrier, Freeman and Ruby’s Wrath(Which has a massive penalty that other legendaries don’t suffer.)
In the lead up to BL3, they were the manufacturer I was most excited to play. And hand mounted pistols look cool as #####. My only problem right now is they seem to be missing some oomph.
Here is why I think so.
They have the fewest legendaries.
One of their legendaries performs worst than a normal gun. (Rebel Yell)
One of their legendaries has a massive penalty and long CD alternate fire mode.(Ruby’s Wrath)
The one unique gun, Peacemonger, performs worse than normal atlas pistols.
The cloning maddening tracker is broken on Moze.
(Not related but it still breaks the game and needs to be looked into. XD)
Am I just expecting too much because they looked like the coolest manufacturer? Or is my sentiment shared by other players?
Now, here are my ideas for improving Atlas legendaries.
Just some number tweaks on the present ones would be great. Only the Carrier, Freeman and Ruby’s Wrath are in a good place right now. Yes, they have weaknesses, but they are balanced by their strengths pretty well. It would be good to see some small damage tweaks.
A Duel wielding XD atlas pistol legendary
Atlass SMG’s and / Or sniper rifles?
An Atlass Hive, that instead shoots bullets. Or shoots tracking darts that other atlas weapons can track and increases their damage.
An Atlas Gun that bypasses shields when the target is tracked. But does reduced damage.
An Atlas pistol that shoots cryo rounds.
Atlas Sniper rifles that shoot bullets that pass through enemies and hit other enemies. (But has reduced damage)
Atlas Launcher that shoots turrets. (High Ammo Consumption. And yes, it does sound a bit tediore.)
Generally, it would be nice to see atlas get some love. And not just damage buffs, but interesting ways that a gun can be used that change up the gameplay.
Freeman and Ruby’s Wrath are pretty good examples of this. They are not the strongest in their class by any means, but to get the most out of them requires playing the game a little differently.
I dunno… in practice I find it killing enemies as fast as my burly Q-System. If ammo consumption is brought into the equation, it’s not as good, but the damage output seems to be there. Like I get that it shouldn’t be, but that fire rate though.
The Peacemonger has a tight niche… outside of this, it’s weak. Within, it’s fantastic.
This could be said about quite a bit of gear in the game, and this is basically my bread and butter in all Borderlands franchises. A lot of the enjoyment in the game for me is figuring out how to make something work that involves more than just “pull trigger for big damage” (though that’s certainly enjoyable). If I have to build around it a little and use various strategies (movement, skills, positioning, scoping, tagging, charging, reloading, etc.), it’s a little more satisfying.
For Atlas, I use them with Zane as follows (I suppose this would be considered a “build”). Because Atlas weapons largely can’t miss once an enemy is tagged, it’s easy to hit targets consistently while moving very fast since one doesn’t need to aim, so he’s focused heavily on maximizing Violent Movement. If there’s a damage cap, I’m certainly reaching it with these speeds (though it also helps immensely with survivability when nothing can catch you and it’s super fun). I need to do some research for its behavior though… much of what I find online is incomplete or was done before the November patch that hit it.
He’s built fully down the blue Hitman tree with the exception of Cold Bore (swaps are fast enough, and I’m not looking for bonus Cryo damage). The huge fire rates from Violent Violence and Playing Dirty (and reload speed from Cool Hand) allow me to take the most advantage of the various tracker durations. This also opens up all the of SNTNL options, as I try to use ‘speed while SNTNL’ anointments on my gear. Bad Dose is a staple for the movement speed, and the others I rotate around depending on the combat.
He’s partially built down the red Doubled Agent tree. This is as much to get my hands on more movement speed with Supersonic Man as it is to have the Clone on hand for escaping FFYL, throwing grenades, swapping in and out of dangerous places, and extending SNTNL’s duration). There are no points spent in the green Under Cover tree.
Because I’m using two action skills, I can’t manually toss grenades, so they’re all the best homing varieties I find (Hexes, Seekers, Trackers). I prefer elemental anointments on these, since Atlas doesn’t otherwise have elemental gear, but I use whatever I find.
Shields are whatever I find that gives him the most movement speed. If it’s got the 15% speed buff while SNTNL is active and isn’t otherwise trash, I use it. When I’m really going for speed and I equip an Infiltrator COM, I take advantage of the shield break with a Revengenader shield for a grenade toss while I’m at it. I just got one with a Safe Space modifier and a health steal anoint too.
COMs are rotated in and out freely on a whim as their various perks sound like fun to use at any given time, though I suppose the Infiltrator is my default for the movement speed buff.
Relics were also rotated in and out freely as they sound fun at the time until Claptrap found the Pearl of Ineffable Knowledge, and I’ve had a hard time parting with this. The fire rate and reload speed are welcome, but it’s the stacked damage that I love because once an enemy is tagged, it’s a safe assumption that I’ll be nailing consecutive hits. For my assault rifles, with 15 rounds to get to max, they’re guaranteed a bit over 20 more rounds in the 90% buff zone (and then there’s the Carrier). Previously, my favorite relic was a Snowdrift (for the movement speed obviously), and I still love slams, so I’ll sacrifice damage output to mix these back into my gameplay for fun.
Darts are great for tagging fast-moving enemies, and especially for nailing something in the crit spot (so subsequent shots will all hit that spot for huge damage).
Pucks are great for dense mobs, since an enemy killed with a puck while the timer is still live will cause it to fly upwards and re-acquire another target within a certain range. I can sometimes get four to five kills off a single puck if the enemies are close enough.
Grenades are my least favorite because their range is short, but they are handy for tagging enemies behind cover, and unless you nail a direct hit, the time it takes for them to fire after bouncing on the ground is agonizingly long.
Playing Dirty works on the trackers. For darts, it just adds a single extra dart (not a double set), so there’s not a huge advantage. For pucks, it’s rare that the pair will hit separate enemies. For grenades thrown at distance, the spread can seriously expand the tag radius.
The loadout is as follows:
Pistol (I try to have one with each of the tracker types that I select as the combat warrants, but anointment availability generally overrules this).
Assault Rifle (the Rebel Yell has hard-coded dart trackers, and I try to get a Carrier with grenades and a Q-System with the puck, but damage/anointments take priority over those)
Launcher (Ruby’s Wrath is mainly used for mobbing with the Vortex Grenade, and the Freeman is super fun for catching squirrely enemies, but it’s hard to Half Life that rocket while moving super fast, so it doesn’t generally get that damage boost). By default, I have a strong Unshippable Pattern Red with projectile speed anoint (that I can fire manually if needed by killing the Clone using Dopplebanger) that I use when something needs to die.
Peacemonger (in case I run into its niche. I may also put the Freeman here if another launcher is equipped above because it’s fun to use on the fly sometimes).
All that said, I wouldn’t say no to more Unique gear for Atlas (don’t care about the rarity so much as some red-texted gimmick that makes it interesting). I mean, I would usually say I’ll take whatever new Uniques they decide to publish, but I could go with fewer Jakobs sniper rifles, Maliwan SMGs or Torgue pistols.
…Imma just applaud this thorough response. My heart is please XD
I generally play only Moze. So my usage is related to her. I don’t think they are doing badly right now. THey are just doing badly compared to the other manufacturers. They have about half the Legendaries (Less in some cases) of the other manufacturers. And they are partly what got me interested in BL 3. Cant wait for more legendaries to drop.
I still wonder why no manufacturier fulfills all the different weapon categories.
(RIP Kevin - 11/21/19 - Gone but not forgotten.)
The way I see it, each manufacturer focuses on exactly one stat (jakobs=damage, vladof=firerate, dahl=handling, hyperion=accuracy, etc). Atlas doesn’t, because it has no single stat that it excels at, therefore it feels like a jack-of-all manufacturer, with good all-round stats and a great gimmick (being able to shoot from behind cover).
It’s fine that they lack the same punch as other guns, given that their “gimmick” is powerful, like how tediore guns do less damage but have a powerful reload gimmick. The problem is that their legendaries don’t build on the gimmick OR add enough power. They’re just weak or slightly boosted versions of their normal guns. At least the ruby’s wrath adds a new type of tracker (singularity tracker grenade), but that’s all. EDIT: the rebel yell does add shock damage, but that’s it.
I’d like to see some more tracker modes, for legendaries. Like a ZX-1 style from TPS, that tags an enemy with the first shot fired after a reload. Or a homing tracker grenade. Or an underslung single-shot-mag puck shotgun that tags all enemies it hits (and the puck moves fast to new enemies).
And yeah, the Q-system has high damage (mainly because of the BOGOF “cost-effective” prefix), with lower fire rate, making it the best atlas AR (and maybe one of the best in general), but the V-system is more balanced and the N-system has a higher fire rate, so they should be good too but they just feel so weak.
If I was going to make a themed Atlas weapon, I would consider toying with the trackers. At the moment there are two unique tracker types: Ruby Wrath’s vortex grenade and the Rebel Yell’s shock darts (drives me nuts that Playing Dirty doesn’t double the darts fired, just adds 1), so there’s room here for something novel. I’d add more elemental options to the trackers on some new weapon myself.
I’d like it if Atlas made grenades that tagged enemies, so you didn’t have to swap to alternate fire. It would cause any atlas shots fired to home in on the tagged enemy, plus any non-atlas shot fired close to the enemy to home in (so you can use other weapons, but it’s not as good as with an atlas one).
I think it’s because they added manufacturer “gimmicks” for each corporation in B3. So there were some weapons that wouldn’t work very well with the chosen gimmick, like Jakobs heavy weapons that ricochet on critical, Atlas shotguns that home in with all projectiles, Hyperion pistols with big shields on the sides, or tediore heavy weapons with homing mirv reload.
I’d love to see them, but I get why they didn’t want to make them. Plus, they already had so many different types, so it helps to reduce them a little.
I’ve been on the lookout for one of these with similar damage per second, and just haven’t found it, mostly because some Q-Systems come with double shots (where the per-single-shot damage has been close a few times). Have you seen an N or V with double? If the DPS was equivalent, I’d go for something with a higher fire rate.
Atlas as a whole seems to be lacking, they’re mostly focusing on non elemental auto aim which as it is now has multiple unnecessary drawbacks. I understand that the point of these weapons as a gameplay mechanic is to make the game more accessible to players who aren’t into the FPS genre / appeal to those who are just “to lazy to aim” but the tracker bullets are more of a hassle to use than anything else which is quite counterproductive so in order for this to actually work they should make a few changes to improve the manufacturer perk:
gimmicks like the tracker grenades should be removed
hitting the button for the alternate firing mode should make your bullets homing
homing bullets should always prioritize weak points
the last enemy hit by a non homing bullet should be a priority target for your homing bullets
This way the manufacturer perk becomes a lot more practical to use while still keeping the maximum damage output the same.
its a bit too time consuming
i probably would use atlas guns but i play moze and i “have to use” splash damage and all atlas splash guns have no elemental damage so i am not using atlas guns but if i would, it would probably bug me that i always have to switch mode to keep firing and then eventually i would just not shoot the trackers anymore and just try to aim
guns gimmiks should give you an advantage and i think that atlas guns are really just weaker than any other guns
I disagree. Atlas weapons can be used exactly like any other,by just aiming and shooting.
The tracker function is an optional extra. You can duck under cover, switch to alt-fire, pop up and tag an enemy, duck under cover, shoot around cover and hit enemy. Sure, it’s harder to aim like that, and not every map supports it, but in the right location and with some skill, you can take out enemies easily, without taking damage back.
That’s a great gimmick. So, it requires a bit more work. Seems fair, to me.
well, i agree that in some situations, the tracker function can be better than the oldschool dart style because you can shoot certain enemies way more accurately
i think it should be split and there should be atlas guns like the peacemonger and also guns like rebel yell, to support both playstyles