#7

I remember liking one point in Whiteout. The first point gives the biggest return at 17 % so that’s worth it for me. At least for me the situations where I was close enough to mobs for it to do it’s thing were the same ones where I most needed to be taking less damage. Easily worth at least that investment in my mind. Do keep in mind though that this skill introduces some visual pollution on your screen and on some maps it’s worse than on other (Lular station springs to mind, good luck seeing anything).

Shock transfusion is also something to consider if you have one. The cryo one isn’t exactly top notch for freezing anyone and the shock version is at least decent enough extra damage on shields. I don’t think I’ve ever tried Quasar on Aurelia so no comments there.

I personally prefer Polar Vortex. It’s an ok CC and predictable enough IMO. Winter’s Fury is just useless crap as far as I remember. Whether you pick one or not is up to preference tho.

As for shields before I acquired the Naught I was a fan of just purple turtle shields with parts that give fast recharge rate and delay. I do feel the Naught is overall just the best shield for Aurelia.

Also Sentinel is really annoying because for whatever reason the very humanoid like thing, including a very humanoid like head, does not have a crit spot.

2 Likes
#8

Numerically. But if it’s damage reduction, not damage resistance, then it grows exponentially more powerful as you put point into it (instead of linearly).

  • Reduction
    • 17% - 1.2x more ehp
    • 50% - 2x more ehp (so 5x more than the initial point)
  • Resistance
    • 17% - 1.17x ehp
    • 50% - 1.5x ehp (only ~3x more than the initial point)
2 Likes
#9

Makes sense. As you can see, if that was enough to make me conclude I liked the Rosie better on her, it’s because I rarely use lasers anywhere else.

Now that I’m dwelling on it, it occurs to me that I only keep a laser around for bosses who reflect bullets. I instinctively go to lasers whenever I fight them now.

Believe me, I’m not disputing you on the main point. Aurelia clearly wants to be played with cryo.

My point was more of a nuance: when you say “only,” I imagine myself as a player coming to Aruelia for the first time, reading that procrustean word, and concluding she’d be terrible, if not unviable, with anything other than cryo weapons.

I’m sure you don’t mean that, but that’s how it sounds.

With a “deputy” load out, I don’t feel I’m losing anything worth lamenting from those skills you mentioned - everything dies almost instantaneously. Freeze, shoot, die. Repeat.

When I use cryo weapons, it’s effectively the same: freeze, shoot, die. Repeat. Maybe they die half a second faster when I use cryo? Don’t know. I can’t discern a difference in real time.

So, I want to ask a favor: propose a build you would use and a few weapons that you think would help me get your point through my thick skull, and I promise to give it a good faith trial. I want to try to expand my purview here, even against my own inclinations.

Getting back to the semantic stuff, I’m curious as to why this matters. Trash mobs are more or less one-shots either way - freeze, shoot, die. So that leaves badasses and bosses. Bosses are almost never freezable; and with badasses… I don’t know, haven’t tested it. I’d say the average big badass takes 5-8 seconds with my loadout. Just a guess.

I’m sure everything could go faster, but it’s plenty fast.

I’m not disputing your facts. It’s more the choice of words. I fully agree that VHs want to be played in certain ways, but, you must admit, most people’s experience with BL is finding a compromise between the VH’s desires and the player’s preferences.

And so, when I’m still applying tons of cryo, plus a cryo grenade, plus getting cryo on non-cryo weapons with Wintertide, I think it’s a stretch to say I’m jamming a square peg into a round hole. Wintertide is a skill she has, as are all the AS buffs to cryo. It’s not counterintuitive to build around them. It’s plainly one way she wants to be played - perhaps not an optimized way, but a highly viable way nonetheless.

At the same time, you telling me the optimized way allows me to see its Platonic Form in more detail than I could on my own. I can then decide how much I want to approximate it.

It’s all helpful, even if I don’t do it, because more knowledge is good.

Besides, good sir, I did try using a damn Flakker and a damn Laser Disker and a damn Fragnum and a damn IVF with Clappy. I tried, man, I tried… But God made Tediore and Torgue weapons to annoy me, and made me to hate Tediore and Torgue weapons. This is my destiny :ghost:.

1 Like
#10

But many would run into similar problems like you’ve had with the 3 characters we’ve talked about together. I’m glad Aurelia is working out for you, but I’m sure you’ve had times where no matter how you’ve tried to play a character, it didn’t seem to work. And most people won’t come ask for help like you have (especially as thoroughly as you have), and just end up quitting the character/game altogether.

If a new player comes looking for help and sees your thread, I’d want post just how it is. They’d learn how to play the character and enjoy at the very least their strength. Then if they had enough experience and wanted to play them differently, they’d be at a point where my words wouldn’t seem absolute anyway. And if it turned out bad, they’d at least have the safety net and knowledge to know it’s not the character’s fault.

I play stuff like DoT Gaige on occasion, I don’t just stick the “meta”. But I’m not going to tell a new/struggling player that the build is viable. Where as I have a build, King Arthbrrr the Icebringer, that kills stuff with grenades as Nisha. Is it how she wants to be played? No. But I’d suggest anyone experienced with the game/Nisha to give it a try

No, if it works for you it works. She’s definitely not as restrictive as Claptrap. TPS is not hard enough for the difference you’d want to see to show against a weapon like the Flayer. The only point I have is the one I already brought up about not needing the Vladof Cryo for stuff like better Frigid Touch healing.

The only build that might be worth trying is her sniper spam build if you have all the gear (if you want). But I know you said you don’t enjoy stuff like that anyway.

Well theres the healing from Frigid Touch. And then you say bosses cant be frozen, but that’d be my point, cryo would do more damage.

I wasn’t necessarily referring to Aurelia. I mean stuff like when you gave me the task of “no explosive” on Clappy. :stuck_out_tongue:

BTW Wintertide can’t crit, its mainly there to help freeze stuff faster. And ends up not being much damage for your cryo related stuff to boost.

1 Like
#11

You were the one who convinced me to try Whiteout, reading through some of your past attempts to build your Aurelia. I then read Khimera’s analysis of the skill and supposed, if I was going to really make the best of it, I’d load up on it.

It works for me because of the way I play. Generally, I’ll begin by sniping as many as I can before engaging, and once an enemy closes in on me I’ll trigger Aurelia’s action skill, and begin getting up close and personal. Whiteout works wonderfully with such a playstyle, and I don’t have to worry about the visual pollution because I never try to snipe with the action skill on anyway.

It’s personal opinion, but I’ve also found the visual pollution issue to be somewhat overblown (not that you’re wrong about it in certain areas). It doesn’t bother me nearly as much as, say, Krieg’s visual pollution. Hellborn is the only build I like on him, unfortunately, and since I can’t use a FotF for the reason stated, I use a RR instead.

I owe a lot to your prior discussions on the forums. It got everything with my Aurelia kickstarted.

#12

Oh, that’s very understandable. At this point it just feels like I’m nitpicking when that’s not my intention. All I’d want to add is a qualification to the “only,” since, you know, in the wider BL infoverse - on Reddit, for example - you have all sorts of people saying untrue stuff about what’s viable and what’s not, and as much as people might be deterred by struggling with an à contre-courant build, they could also be deterred by mistakenly supposing only one type of build or playstyle is viable.

That’s just speaking from experience. When I first started out on BL2 and eventually got to OP10, I was misled by people repeating ritually that there was only one way to build Maya or Krieg or whoever for viability.

So yeah - it’s still a quibbly point I’m making, no doubt. I do understand where you’re coming from.

I want to try it. I may not like it, but I may find something I do like in it and decide to incorporate it into what I’ve got going presently. The only thing I don’t have is a glitch Cryo droog, but I do have a Cryo droog. If my experience using it thus far is anything to go by, it shouldn’t make a huge difference. (The Droog is amazing on Aurelia.)

I’m not at all clear on how this works, but if it’s as you say, why would you recommend a shock Badaboom instead of cryo? Asking for a friend :slight_smile:

Can’t argue with you there.

I would emphasize - not for you, but for anyone reading this in the land of the future - that, with the exception of Athena, the help I’ve asked for regarding Wilhelm, Clappy, and Aurelia wasn’t due to me struggling terribly with them. With Clappy I was having trouble figuring out the best shield and Oz kit, balancing survivability and damage in a way that felt sufficient.

With Wilhelm, I already had a build I ran through the game with with no trouble - I just love Wilhelm so much the kids taunt me by saying, “Well, why don’t you marry him?” I wanted to get as much understanding of Wilhelm’s skills as I could, and I needed more than what I was getting from the skill analysis and from Derch’s and Hoyle’s discussion in Derch’s long video on the subject.

As stated above, I had real problems with Athena. She’s one of two VH’s I felt it necessary to build in accord with the orthodoxy (Nisha being the other).

Of course, I’m just one person and others could struggle where I didn’t. It doesn’t seem to me most people struggle with Athena, but I did. I just want to be clear that, for the most part, I was asking for help in understanding, to help me get the most out of whatever I was looking to do, rather than to keep me from quitting the game in frustration.

In any case, I’m going to try your sniper spam proposal, damn the torpedoes.

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#13

I only use the Badaboom on bosses I can’t crit, so all that matters is matching elements. I wouldn’t recommend sacrificing damage to try and out heal a boss.

Shock does 2.5x damage to shields, cryo does 0.4x.

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#14

Ok - this is the arcana I’m less than knowledgeable about. So, if it isn’t too much trouble to press you further, what bosses would you recommend cryo on, if any?

My understanding of the bosses in this game is poor. I usually just ty to damage race them, and if my gear and/or build isn’t up to snuff, I lose the race and die. I don’t have a clue how to fight most of them with beautiful tactics.

#15

And I said she only “wants” to use cryo guns, not that she only can use cryo guns. That’s how I tried to make the distinction. But I get how it would be unclear.

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#16

Ones you can’t crit, aren’t shielded, and you can’t apply status effects to (enemies can be cryo’d without being frozen).

You might also not know then that the cryo status effect causes you to deal 200% more crit damage, 2.5x more explosive damage, and 3x more melee damage to affected enemies.

#17

I’m going to sound like I’ve never played this game before, but I swear I have. Bosses meeting this criteria would be… um…

Flameknuckle (or whatever his name is),
Felicity (even though you can crit her, her crit bugs out)

And… that’s it. Unless I’m forgetting someone. Deadlift has a shield, as does Bosun, as does Zarpedon, as does Sentinel, as do DS and E&E.

Let’s say, hypothetically, I drain Bosun’s shield and then use cryo, or likewise with Zarpendon. Would that work?

I don’t normally focus on criting the bosses, since I tend to not even know where their crit spots are. With Bosun, for instance, I just jump up to him, take out his buddies, then get in his face and spam something (usually a shock company man; sometimes a shock machine). I’m sure I crit him by accident on occasion. I’m wondering if, with Aurelia, he’d go down faster (after his shield is down) if I used cryo.

And if that held for Bosun, it should hold for Zarpedon too, yes?

(Deadlift I don’t worry about, as once you get his shield down he dies fast no matter what.)

Now that is news to me. Does “cryo’d” in this context mean “take cryo damage,” which would be desirable here because of all of Aurelia’s cryo buffs?

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#18

You should be able to crit and maybe status him.

Sorry, I meant are shielded. The mini sentinel and the face mask are definitely things I’d use the Badaboom on.

I killed DS today and a shock+fire Pitchfork didn’t do too bad. Just no where near what other characters can do.

If an enemy doesn’t have a shield, and can be cryo’d, explosive is better because of the 2.5x damage.

You can tell an enemy is cryo’d because they’ll have a cryo DoT ticking on them. I don’t recall Aurelia having any skills that care about the enemies being cryo’d, just that you’re using cryo damage.

Here is a little example of the sniper spam build. My PC is a little old, and I’m a little rusty (haven’t made a video in 3.5 years), but it should portray the power I talk about (and it starts with 0 stacks). But feel free to hold off on watching it if you want to try it yourself first.

Aurelia Sniper Spam - YouTube

The sound you might hear is my dying controller disconnecting if I move too much.

1 Like
#19

Awesome. I’ll get a feel for it by watching first, then give it a go later tonight.

Something tells me I’m going to regret not having the loop glitch. I’ll have to get a feel for managing my ammo supply.

Ok, so let me see if I understand this. Apologies for being dense. What’s got me twisted in knots is what is meant by “cryo’d” - frozen, or just ticking with a cryo DOT (or do they only tick if they’re frozen?). And what’s the difference between “cryo damage” and being “cryo’d”? Does it work like other elemental damage, where there’s, say, a fire bonus inherent to the element and (if you can proc it) a fire DOT?

I ask because I want to have it clear in my mind where I can get the cryo bonuses from explosive or other elements. Simply, can I only get it when they’re frozen?

#20

When I say cryo’d I mean both. Its just that bosses (and like if you cryo an enemy before they fully spawn) will only have the DoT, but won’t be frozen. And frozen enemies will be CCd and also take said DoT.

An easy way to test is to just unload like half a Fridgia mag into something, stop firing, and if you still see cryo numbers that means they can be “cryo’d”. (Make sure your action skill isnt the one making the damage numbers.)

I don’t quite understand this one. You mean if certain health types take increased damage regardless of DoTs? Then yes, but cryo is neutral for flesh/armor, and does -60% damage (and chance of DoTing) to shields.

You only get the crit/explosive/melee damage with a DoT active, and not if you simply shoot an enemy with a cryo gun and dont DoT them.

Yes, if they have a cryo DoT on them you get said buffs against them. And remember frozen enemies also have said DoT.

Explosive is the only element that gets the damage boost, but other elements that crit get the 200% crit damage however (including explosive).

The ammo regen from the COM and Silver Lining should be enough, as enemies will also drop ammo. Plus the multishot glitch causes shots to consume 2 ammo, so it balances out. The difference however is the power, when you get a glitch it feels like a whole new gun in terms of DPS (normal Droog is just fine though).

(Although do not use the Machine, it’s designed really only to be used for bosses because of the special effect.)

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#21

I’m gonna confess I don’t understand how that plays out like that but I’ll just take your word for it. Is the effective HP gain from reduction linear or does the 1.2x for 1 into 2x for 5 just something that happens?

Still, for what it’s worth I did find that one point seemed to make a sufficient difference for me compared to when I didn’t have it.

#22

I’m saying the initial investment of +0.2 (1.2x), becomes 5 times more ehp gained at the +1 (2x) max investment before COMs (aka 5/5). So not 5x ehp, but 5x the ehp bonus.

So I’m not saying 100 health turns into 500, I’m saying +20% ehp turns into +100% (5 times 20 is 100).

If this skill is damage reduction, it is exponential because it approaches an infinite value. So say you have a 100 health base, DR would provide…

  • Formula - (Health/(1-Percentage)) = Effective hit points (ehp)
  • 25% = 134
  • 50% = 200
  • 75% = 400
  • 90% = 1000
  • 95% = 2000

While damage resistance would look like…

  • Formula - (Health*(1+Percentage)) = Effective hit points (ehp)
  • 25% = 125
  • 50% = 150
  • 75% = 175
  • 90% = 190
  • 95% = 195

So if Whiteout is damage reduction like I’ve been told, it gets infinitely stronger the more points you have in it. Compared to if it’s damage resistance, where you would get the most value from the first point because of diminishing returns.

#23

Yeah, I was just wondering if the byproduct of the skill using the amounts it has would end up with the ehp bonus gain per point happening to be linear, at least for the first 5 points. I probably worded that quite poorly.

Appreciate the formulas, that explains why the difference between the 2 is how it is.

#24

Quick question.

I’m messing around with different Oz Kits, mainly out of curiosity about boosting splash. What I seem unable to figure out is what exactly is boosted by “explosive” damage (as you find on one Duality kit). When I check Demonite’s splash damage guide, I don’t find anything about explosive damage - I suppose because it’s not considered splash?

There’s grenade splash, “gun” splash, and pure splash. The guide says, for instance, that the Fragnum does 100% grenade splash. Ok, but does that mean it will only get boosted by grenade damage and not explosive damage, or will these boost different “parts” of the bullet impact?

Will explosive damage boost every grenade “explosion”? Or none?

What counts as an explosion at all?

#25

Explosive damage is any damage with yellow numbers (Torgue, un modded grenade, Jakobs Cannon, etc…). The same way fire is red, shock is blue, etc…

“Explosion” damage isn’t a thing in this game.

#26

Then what is that duality kit boosting? NVM - I know what you mean now.