Badassery by the Numbers? ... in reality the numbers don't really add up that way

So I watched this Badassery by the numbers trailer on Gametrailers and left with a worried concern about using the numbers to give the illusion (yes we know Randy is a wonderful magician) of choice. This was also done in Borderlands and with each successive game in the franchise the numbers get bigger but in reality what you got was a far more confined set of number combinations that represented for the most part the drudgery of gaming. The boring guns, the boring shields. The really cool number combinations are locked away and are in general really, Really hard to get too. The use of brightly coloured similar size and shaped objects gives lootsplosions more appeal than actual value when playing.

I am trying to understand what Battleborn is supposed to be and have watched several trailers but still it is not making sense to someone like me who has never been MMO player or into TF2 etc. The Solo appeal to this game has been mentioned but is not being really sold in any way and I feel it is tacked on at best. Is this really a game only for multiplayer or should someone who likes solo games also be able to have enough fun with it?

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There’s 25 characters with 25 skill tree upgrades each, and you pick 10 out of those each level that you play. You’ll probably find there’s some upgrades you never pick, I suppose, particularly if you’re only choosing them for playing against the computer, but it looks like a pretty deep system to explore. There is loot, but it’s not like it is in Borderlands - each character has a fixed collection of flexible skills and weapons throughout the game (the loot seems to be more in the form of functional upgrades, like bigger clips or different kinds of grenade effects).

As far as how multiplayer-oriented it is, its still hard to say for certain. There’s certainly an emphasis on co-op in the campaign mode, and it’s looking like there’s a lot of depth to the competitive multiplayer, so it doesn’t seem especially geared toward solo play, though that is possible to do. I would say if you’re only thinking you’ll solo play through the campaign once with a single character, it’s going to be a pretty short game and you’re not going to be taking advantage of a lot of the content.


Which numbers exactly do you mean? The character skill choices or the team combinations?

About gameplay:
So far it’ a 9 level campaign and a few coop based multiplayer gamemodes. Although i guess that there will be some kind of deathmatch.

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Doesn’t look to be my type of game then.

The math is sound. Source: am an engineer.

Obviously no one could possibly play every single combination, and most of those numbers reflect slight changes (i.e. playing the same character and choosing 1 different skill), but it’s all for fun. Loosen up.

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Maybe he added up the choices, and wondered why the amount wouldn’t get close to the 3rd digit.

I think he does not mean the actual numbers add up to the amount of combinations, but the feel of the diversity.
With Borderlands you had a lot of guns, but how many unique weapons did you really have.
Because one fired a bit faster didn’t make it a “new” gun.

A skill that just adds more power to your ability doesn’t make the ability new. The game changers that add new mechanics to the ability make it a fresh thing. So instead of having over 7000 hero combinations it feels like you just have 35.

The Legendary drop rate of Borderlands was according to Math ok at 1% but it didn’t FEEL good so they increased it to 6% (if i remember my numbers correct)

I have to disagree here. Yes, some of the skills add a few percentages, but most of the skills we’ve seen change the mechanics of the abilities, enough to change the way you use them. A good example is Orendi’s Nullify. The ability lets her deal damage and leap backwards to avoid a fight, but one of her skills causes Nullify to propel her forward. This one skill point drastically changes the way you play Orendi, from a low-risk evasive playstyle to a high-risk high-reward aggressive style.

I get what youre saying about the guns in BL2; a Bandit shotgun is a Bandit shotgun no matter the level, rarity, or stats. And if all the skills in Battleborn just added percentages to damage/cooldown/range/etc, then I would agree that there wasnt much diversity. But what we have is a choice between two/three skills each level that significantly change the way you play the character.

I think they did their best to make every Helix choice as unique as could be, and then probably shifted the numbers onto the loot.
Or at least we will never have the feeling, that a choice between the 2 options of one Helix stage is obsolete, because both effects pretty much did the same. Which is all that the small video was about: choices.

Still waiting on some form of reveal, that says that we can optimize a bit ingame with the money we earn. But since I haven’t played anything else than the demo level yet, I can’t judge that. Also they said that they wanted to keep the menu downtime to a minimum, which is why the Helix system has shrunk to 10 stages. And which is also why I don’t expect more than the turret upgrades.

Perhaps I’m too carefree of a person, but I cannot bring myself to be either worried or concerned about Battleborn’s solo play value with only one short demo revealed so far.

Nor can I bring myself to make semi final decisions in public about potential game purchases a half year prior to their release dates.

In fact, this entire thread has led me to realize just how much of an unserious gamer I’ve turned out to be.

/flogs himself unmercifully in penance and whimpers softly in the corner

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@Koozebane nyah, I feel you, bro.

I guess many people have fun in drawing conclusions, even if those conclusions are regarding unreleased content most of us do not know yet. Many topics arround here are full of such conclusions, decisions and almost hardline opinions.

I let it come as it will come. Its a new game, for crying out loud! Can´t we be just eager instead of resignate already now?

With 25 chars to choose from I´m okay with some skills to be not to op. Not everything can be a game changer. In every game with large skilltrees (Path of Exile, WoW, insert any here) there are skills or sidenotes that seem useless until someone finds a comination its usable. And even if not, fillers have to exist, at least in my opinion.


Correct. When the strongest attribute you can find to advertise the measure of the game is in itself quite pointless then you have to wonder are there any real any jey strengths of the game. The combination (yes I was referring to the multiplication when I stated add up) represents a huge meaningless number that bears no real in game significance. It is likely that you could change any number of the factors used in the calculations and the player would have no idea that the character has changed. I really hope the game ends up feeling like how it was represented when sold. They don’t always do and rarely do the ever end up better than advertised.

If you were unconcerned then you would most likely not be reading this forum and definitely not contributing to it. You are more involved than you think.

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You got me.

Your selfless outpouring of super genuine worried concern has caused me to expend at least three minutes of my time.

An unquestionable display of total angst, if ever there was one.


And yet here you are again.


I hardly think this is meant to represent the strongest attribute. It’s pretty clearly just a fun aside meant to echo the original Borderlands marketing and to underscore how customizable these character’s skill trees are. There’s other trailers for the game available, and surely more specific details will come out in trailer form when we’re not so far out from the game’s release.


People do tend to respond during a discussion.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have some super serious flogging and whimpering to do.

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It will feature heavily in the marketing at the games release, you can count on it. It appears they are having problems defining what the game they are making really is. It is not all that long till its release. I have been following it ever since it was announced and it is still just as unclear what they are going for as back then.

I’d be surprised if it featured much in later marketing, myself - its far less relevant to the game than Borderlands’ random weapons are. Gearbox has experience with hard to define genre-blended games before, I’m sure they’ll be fine.

I feel like I have a pretty good handle on what kind of experiences this game will offer from the content that’s been released thus far. It’s not really much more of an unknown quantity than, say, something like Gears of War where there’s a decent campaign experience, a solid co-op experience, and a robust competitive multiplayer experience. The only real twist on that premise is that its accenting those modes with some ideas that have emerged from MOBAs (characters instead of classes, in-match leveling, a mix of player-controlled and AI-controlled enemies, etc.).

If we can help clear up any confusion you have about the game, I’m sure we’d all be happy to do so.


I will 100% buy this game, and still I’m here.
Almost as if a forum didn’t just exist to reconfirm a decision :slight_smile:
Because then, every forum would die off after game release.

Stop being such a grump. We’re here to be excited together. Except for you appearantly :confused:
Just take part in the beta and THEN decide, instead of just painting it all black already. The game is still 4 months away. You can’t expect them to roll out all their marketing already.

So yeah: Chill man :smiley:

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