Balance in PVP is completely out of whack

I love this game, I played a lot more in open beta than I thought I would, and I really am compelled to play PVP here again now that the game is here and I have some cool stuff.
But the one thing I can’t ignore at this point is how completely and utterly broken the balance is for this game.(PC).
I just got out of a match where Marquis was able to, at level3 no items, 1442 damage in less than 4 1/2 seconds. No abilities, just his sniperfire.
Meanwhile I’m playing Thorn and at level 3, no abilities or items, am doing a max of 170 per normal attack and 225 charged.
Why do I make this comparison, because technically both Thorn and Marquis are Snipers, and at the major ranges that they are dealing with each other, mathematically if both characters are absolutely flawless and on point with their aim.
Thorn stands absolutely Zero chance of winning that fight.
There’s a far greater amount of factors and itemization to factor in later on, but you have to admit… Marquis doing that much damage, that early on no item, completely unable to reach him on Incursion, and Meltdown, is ridiculous.
No character should have a TTK that fast against any character that early on, unless you want to bring all sniper based characters to that level.
This is not the only example of severe imbalances in the game, there’s a lot of very recognizably overpowered and underpowered characters in the game, and this desperately needs to be attended to, as soon as possible.
Terrible balance can absolutely ruin a game’s potential, and Battleborn with so much competetion from the Moba and Shooter markets, I don’t think can afford to let any of these balance issues fester for very long.
And please for the love of god GearBox, don’t ignore the fact that Console and PC may need some drastically different Balance changes between characters.
I really want to love this game, and recommend it to all my friends. I really really want Battleborn to be the next big popular MOBA, displacing LoL, if Possible.
I believe that Battleborn deserves a lot of attention and a huge player base, so I really am at this point begging for balance patches, as soon as possible.

If the Marquis does that fast to you with no delay between firing and still landing all the hit with you hopping around, it’s probably an Aim bot which is all over place atm.

Anyway, normal MArquis isn’t that much of an issue. In fact, this game is actualyl very balanced on Overgrowth. There’s only like, 1 or 2 chars that need toning for being horrible (foxtrot) or overpowered as heck (current Gal). Everything else are very good if the player themselves know the in-and-out of this game. The game is more thna just player vs player too since let’s say, Overgrowth, is actually 40% environment control 60% player fighting.

Your example with Thorn is, I will say it, horrible. Thorn is NOT a sniper. She’s like an arcane archer. If you do abuse her skills you can just

Charge shot someone.
Drop the blight slow. (Helix 1)
To an ult.

She can 100-0 squishy with just that.

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People need to stop telling me “she’s not a sniper”

I already know that, That’s not the point.

The comparison isn’t about end game max level situation, exct where you can do the combo you described.
You’re failing to recognize, This was LEVEL 3, 100-0 in less than 4 1/2 seconds.

Marquis is dominating and landsliding matches because of this problem, and its not just him either.
There’s a very apparent issue with overpowered and underpowered characters in the game right now.

Balance needs a close eye watching it and balance patching needs to be fast during these early hours of the game.

No offense but your comparison was directly comparing their sniping ability. Marquis is fine other than the aim bots, snipers are meant to pin you down and force you from the open. If a Marquis kills a thorn in even close to 4.5 seconds she was either standing still for whatever reason and to much in the open in which case he cant fulfill his role if he can’t punish that. Either that or an aimbot. They aren’t supposed to be comparable in this regard as she trumps him hard in her areas of strength.

He may do abit to much damage bit his sniper but other than him and gal who else is out of balence?
Also thorn may not do as m7ch damage but is faster and less squishy than he is.

I want to like this game I really do but the story is short and lack luster the multiplayer is broken as all hell unbalanced it just isn’t fun at all I am actually kind of upset that I wasted money on this I expected such good things out of this game due to the success of borderlands and this has been such a let down

This is completely idiotic way of looking at it.

They mechanically fill very similar roles and should be treated similarly as well.
If Thorn wasn’t meant to have any sniping capability whatsoever, then there should be no reason for her to have a Zoomed ADS function instead of an alternate attack on her RMB.

Foxtrot can zoom and add scope. Is he a sniper?

Thorn has some pretty Uber dot damage with blight and is very fast, she’s actually pretty ideal for knocking Marquis off of the cheese spot. Marquis doesn’t have that, at least not at L1, and even if you do upgrade the time bubble to dot, it’s nowhere near as strong as Thorn’s. I think compared to each other, I’d give Thorn the upper hand, unless Marquis player is just that hella good with head shots on small fast characters or is aim botting.

Unbalenced? Again apart from gal whos op? I would say this game pretty balenced.

Considering sustained fire and not methodical way of playing.


And like Thorn, you’re supposed to just mash the arrow for sustain damage with the zoom once in awhile for charged arrow passive.

The 3 seconds charging only give you like +20% damage unless you use it while cursed to deal another +25% bonus damage from the curse.

Firing 3 arrows for 300% vs one empowered 120% damage arrow (or 150% with curse) in the same amount of time

She’s not in anyway a sniper, just like how Foxtrot and Oscar are in no way a sniper even if they can and even upgrade the zoom. You just had a bad experience because you ran into a cheater.

On the balance point other characters, most of them, although varies in power, are viable in Overgrowth, very viable.

I have been doing “Random” run for awhile since yesterday. Outside of Foxtrot who I could barely do anything with because he is the only underpowered character at the moment that I had to be carried (went 3/3/7), I did really well and helped controlled most of the game or even stomp some of them.

The result continues all the way to yesterday with the group ranging from duo to 4-man, mainly being a duo game. Opponents vary from being actual premade as well to being just a bunch of mid to low level queueing. Overall, I think it the final score was 26-1 or something with the only loss being against a 3+2 premade and I random’d a Toby into a bug abusing Marquis with a Galilea comp who got a quad form just holding left click. Nothing I can do if they’re going to be that disgusting.

Most of the kits in this game are actually unique in a way like how all 4 supports fulfill different needs and way of providing them. Most attackers provide a new tool to the team with a few being hilarious strong for no effort (Fire grenade and Air strike).

This is one of the most balanced game you can ask for where player skill truly matter outside the Galilea comp stomp and Marquis aimbot which require minimal skill. Sure some characters are underperforming but they’re all at a level you can try to carry with. The overperforming char are also manageable once you learn their kit and find a way to deal with their stuffs based on the char you pick. It’s like Benedict versus ISIC who can bounce projectile. You learn to shoot the ground as close to them as possible to break the ward instead of shooting directly on the big body.

Can’t say the same about other maps though. they have different pacing and focus on either too much killing or too much pushing that most char end up sucking but hey, there’s a reason why Overgrowth is the most picked map for the player-hosted tournies.

Foxtrot is not underpowered. I’m maining the guy, he just requires his mutations for him to be properly used in PvP (+ he has the best legendary in the game).

What his lengendary?

Just compare him Oscar. OM has a much better early grenade (with impact explode and early fire helix instead of having to unlock Mutator way later in the game) and a much better ult. Is losing those really worth it for 20% ish more single-target only damage?

Where exactly does this guy bring that other characters don’t? The best char to compare him to is probably Mellka who is like a super mobile single-target killer with low utility as well but Mellka has the mobility unlocked at level 1 and gain one of the stronger power spike at level 8 with DoT on all hit.

If you do well with him constantly, it’s because you’re far better than the other players you’re dealing with and the majority of the players in this game.

And if I have to vote for best Legendary, it’s Benedict because it just synergize so well with his kit. It’s like applying a 30% average cooldown reduction to every ability as long as you keep fighting when you can. Simply just abusing the 4-rocket trick on Hawkeye alone takes 4 seconds off his hawkeye with that legendary. (Along with one squishy) Any further can easily push the cool down reduction on the next cast to 40% easily.

Oscar doesn’t have a slow down, shield leach, massive health regen, strong melee attack, 2 anti-invisibility skills, solo-target dmg (the same power of it), shield penetration (once again it is weaker than WF’s), unavoidable ultimate with 100% shield penetration.

OM is mostly useful for lane pushing, while WF is a late-game assassin.

I’m doing better with him than I’m with majority of other characters and I win on them most of the time too. WF is character that I can have a 19/5 K/D even when loosing a game 100-0.
The only other character that I’m doing the same thing with is Deande.

WF’s Legendary is basicaly pure stats that are always active. 25% reload speed, 15% attack speed and - recoil. That is more than a helix would usually give you. But yeah, I was just exeggerating a bit.

But Oscar also offers a massive slow late game as well with that slow on air strike upgrade.
Invisibilty doesn’t work if you get hit by any skill recently anyway thanks to the red outline.
And the shield-pen stuffs only work against a few targets, Kleese, Reyna and Shayne. WF will probably outperform the killing duty on Shayne and Reyna but AoE rift destroying is what you want more against Kleese Shop.

Like, yeah OM is very great for lane pushing but the noob tube also destroys a team by just stealthing in, air strike on the choke point and dropping the grenade, which is far more powerful than WF shooting down one person.

For you to do that well with him is because you dedicated time to actually playing him and trying to make him decent. However, he falls under the same thing as Calda on Beta. Some people dedicated so much time trying to do well with him and even maintain about 60% win rate and decent score even in a losing 4 v 5 game but that doesn’t change the fact that Caldarius was underpowered and had to be buffed (and is still rather irrelevant today after the buffs).

Deande is also a char I often go postive and win with (current W/L score is 7-2) but I still think she’s a piece of crap compared to the other Melee I played because she simply has too many flaws that can be abused to shut her and her job down entirely. Foxtrot falls under the same thing. For 1 good point you can abuse, there are 2 different weaknesses the enemies can abuse. He doesn’t even spike much with the level 4 rush Overgrowth abuse.

Slow is not dmg. You are comparing to absolutely different roles for some reason. It is like saying that deande is better than SM, because she has a stun instead of his slow. WF is not an AOE focused character, he picks his targets one by one with heavy focus fire and target skills. OM just doesn’t have the same amount of single-target potential (and well, it is not his role). It seems like you just think that AOE>SingleTarget, which I can agrue against, but that is whole other topic.

Shield pen work against many characters and builds. Since his shield pen is a late game choice, he can opt to not go for it if it is not needed and get even more dmg.

“For you to do that well with him is because you dedicated time to actually playing him” - stop assuming stuff that you don’t know. I’ve tried him during the Beta and absolutely “rekt” faces with the guy even without the legendary or mutations. When I got to them it only further increased my effectivness with him. 60% win rate is kinda low tbh.

Deande is the best 1vs1 character in current build with insane/infinite single-target CC. Not a single other character has that.

I didn’t.

Stop assuming and start listening and stop making excuses.
Almost every single maquis has been overpowered/dominating the matches, regardless of side.

Thorn is most defintely build like a sniper.