Balancing changes in the new patch

Well I just played the first game with the new patch and realized there are a few balance changes:

Kushan and Taidan Motherships have more hitpoints. Kushan + 30.000, Taidan + 40.000 (Don’t be sure on Taidan the ship has 320.000 on total now).
Kushan Destroyer and Missile Destroyer have more hitpoints too. + 5.000 here. I don’t know about Taidan but I think it’s the same here.

However those changes are barely noticeable at all. HW1 races are still no match for HW2 races. Shipclasses are still imbalanced. Frigates are still useless. Everything is still dying way to fast. It’s still a bigger is just better balancing.

Gearbox what HWR needs is a total rebalancing.

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Humm i have already 42 hours in HWRM, pretty much only in multiplayer, since i still in mission 3 in HW1RM and not even got HW2RM running.
And being a hw multiplayer veteran, i gotta to say that i’m pretty surprised on how well balanced the game is, need just a few tweaks here and there, but pretty good, gj gearbox i’m impressed.
But all the balance goes down the drain when something appears, UPGRADES!
There is no easy way around that, just 2 options: give HW1 upgrades or nerf hard HW2 upgrades, at first i though that give HW1 upgrades was a better deal, but thinking better, they just need to nerf HW2 upgrades, a lot, i would say cut off all the bonus by 50%, and here we go, balanced again.
I think it is time to change HW2 a bit for the sake of balance, HW1 is being the only target so far.

For the most part, balance is not too bad, no. The best player will still win the vast majority of the time.

BCs may seem amazing on paper and such, but they often waste a lot of their damage overkilling things, for example.

But still, that doesn’t mean things can’t be better. I’d like to see HW be a game that people actually play because they like a good multiplayer RTS, not just because they like spaceships and already had it for the singleplayer already.

More than that, the way things are balanced with all the hidden damage modifiers makes it hard for a new player to understand what’s good against what without memorizing a lot of hidden stats and/or more practice and experimentation than should be needed. The same/similar balance could be achieved with similar numbers.

And even if HW1 races aren’t THAT much worse, they lack flavor and fun to them.

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I think that what probably should happen is that the HW2 ships DPS values (especially BC) should probably be nerfed in general. One of the things in HW1 classic that ships at least seem a lot tougher (and frigates aren’t made of paper mache), but their DPS was a fair bit lower as well if I remember right (I’m not exactly looking at it right now…). It’s a major gameplay change because as I remember it, HW1 frigs used to be a bit of a force to be reckoned with, but they’re all but jokes now. Or at least, it seems that way.

But yes, a total rebalance would be ideal. Gearbox seems to have been cutting corners here (or trying to) and it shows.

There’s a reason modders are already getting a start on this! Also, why one of the more popular mods on the Workshop happens to be a rebalance!

BTW everyone in the thread

I’ve got a mod on the workshop, Homeworld Restored that applies the DPS nerfs everyone’s advocating for. Feedback would be helpful not only to me but to the competitive MP community at large as it would help to give us an idea of what works and what doesn’t gameplay wise when doing these DPS nerfs.

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No, before they can balance anything they need to fix this;

HW1 ships don’t work and until they work you can’t be changing numbers on stuff. No numbers will ever fix it because their behavior and A.I. is broken.

You MUST fix the behavior and A.I. before you can touch how much damage or how much armor a unit has.

The nature of HW1 races vs 2 races sort of mandates that HW1 races need to be able to churn out units faster and cheaper, but they also need to stay in formation or they are just fodder. When you get them staying in formation and following proper attack orders then you can start messing with cost/speed to produce/health/damage if the unit.

All the testing amounts to nothing if they aren’t behaving the right way – their behavior forces low DPS, if they functioned properly, their DPS would be higher, so if we go in and buff HW1 races unit damage and then we fix the formations, they are going to be grossly over powered. The behavior should be fixed before anything is tuned and until the behavior is set, nothing else can advance.

The inverse is also true, you don’t want to nerf HW2 unit damage and then fix HW1 behavior only to find out the damage was comparable before the nerfs.

And you can’t just NOT fix the behavior, because that’s the entire game.

I totally agree with you.
Just wanted to point out that Gearbox changed something. Without any concept and prior to bugfixing. It seems they even don’t realize how wrong their balancing is and that they think those small (nearly useless) changes will fix the balancing.

Yeah. They can hardly consider many adjustments to balance when ships aren’t even behaving and flying right, with effects balance a lot.