Balancing changes - PVP and PVE

Battleborn Battleborn General Discussion
#1

When Battleborn characters gets adjusted for PVP concerns, do we also have to accept that change during PVE missions? In other words, when they change a character’s helix tree properties and functionality for PVP, it’s also mirrored over to how they function during PVE, right?

But does it really have to be?

Devil’s advocate here. Just because a character might be strong in comparison to other characters while trying to kill those characters, it doesn’t necessarily mean that they are also too strong while running campaign missions fighting alongside those other characters.

I think the game needs separate balancing and properties for PVP matches vs PVE missions. Then you as developers can more freely tailor and balance the PVP side of things the way it needs to be, and vice versa, the PVE side of things.

#2

Yeah, I almost feel like PvE gets harder with every patch. I almost want them to redo the difficulty of missions (Once the final patches of Character changes are finished), so we can enjoy them again.

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#3

I’ve been begging for this since the beta.
If for no other reason so we can have actual shields in PvE and OPs.

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#4

I’ve had the same problem in Destiny, where the Crucible (the PvP scene) dominates the causes of the balance changes. It greatly turned me off the game (even though I still love it) and my attitude is similar, if not the same here.

The changes are global after all because the characters you play should always be the same. It’d be strange in my eyes that characters would have different helixes/ratios/values or whatever have you between PvE and PvP.

What I mainly want to see are balance changes beig made with PvE in mind. Benedict is one of my most played characters and I used to love going through story missions as him. When they removed his ability to crit however, he virtually died to me in PvE. He can still do well, but he’s not nearly as efficient now and to me who always tries to get precision shots (regardless of game) it became a much more boring playstyle. Instead of landing crits in a relatively small spot, you just have a largr chunk of something to hit where the damage is the same regardless of where you hit.

Sigh, now I miss day 1 Benedict…

7 Likes
#5

I do too. I stoped playing benedict when all the buff/nerf began ;-;.

Well what they are doing and i like is the operations gear. If only they made it for all pve content.

It brings that edge of over power godly feeling needed for pve.

#6

PvE always gets screwed when characters are changed for PvP reasons. It has been like that since Day 1.

Just look at Mellka; she’s the perfect example how PvP royally f**ked her in the ass that she became irrelevant in both arenas. Sure, recent changes buffed her a little bit, but she is still not viable in most Operations or Advanced Story.

It’s changes like these that a character that performs average on PvE get pushed to the lunatic irrelevant fringe. Characters that particularly excel at a specific area will see the most use.

4 Likes
#7

It doesn’t have to be that way. In Destiny, for example, they could have EASILY just given you other subclasses that were only allowed to be used in PvP and the PvE subclasses could only be used in PvE. Done. For those who don’t know, it would be like having a separate Helix tree in Battleborn. A helix for PVP and a helix for PVE. You couldn’t use the PVE helix in PVP and vice versa. Done.

It wouldn’t be all that strange at all. And with proper presentation to the player, it would be really obvious what was going on.

#8

Yeah, I think that it would be wierd to see different characters with different trees. Its why I think the missions are balenced around the characters, and not the other way. To have it with different trees CAN work, but if it requires GOOD communication or representation, I can say it will be undoable in the current state of the game.

It would be harder to try characters out, and in training we would have to be able to swap trees.

Now if instead, We have Trees that are Reccomended/Missions balenced around, but you Can CHOOSE to pick the augments you WANT, I think it would be fine.

I still stand by my Original Post.

Edit: This is Off topic, but I noticed a cake next to my name. How did it get there? Can someone explain? I like it, but want to know why its there.
For reference:

image
IMG_1619.PNG2048×1536 958 KB

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#9

Hovering over the symbol reveals that this marks an anniversary of when you signed up for the forums.

Now for the topic at hand…

Some games I’ve played do something where the stats/abilities are modified depending on the setting. Some games I’ve played even go to the extreme of having you make a brand new character specifically for PvP. Perhaps Battleborn could do something like that - a “Tournament Edition” of the characters for PvP, and a “Day 1” version for PvE. Can you imagine doing Demon Bear with Day 1 Oscar Mike? Rath? Galilea? ■■■■■■■ ALANI?!

Ah crap. I think I need new pants…

2 Likes
#10

Yes. They would have to also provide good training grounds for stuff. The Bot match isn’t too bad for that. But I think we really need a “training dummy” map.

Here are the features the training map would have:
a) switch anything without having to reload the tutorial map
b) switch to any character
c) switch to other gear loadouts
d) modify your helix any way you want. gain or decrease levels. toggle helix options.
e) spawn enemies of whatever types you want. even other battleborn
f) toggle whether enemies stand there like dummies or fight back
g) little consoles or pause button features would enable these features and more

1 Like
#11

Yes!! And the summoned enemies have certain traits we can change in game (ex. Movement, Hostillity, Can Die, EX. Obviously, if hostile and can’t die, there is a way to despawn them. ) This way we can learn crits, dps, And TTk of new characters.

I still think missions balenced around characters, and 3 versions of Characters (Private only or Special Queue. These versions are ‘Throwbacks’ To day one. Public versions are more/less balenced, so no Alani/Jennerit Girl w/Staff carries/Annoyance. PRIVATE will have all three, Release (Actual), Fixed (June/July) And Now. )
Sorry if this rant went off topic. Still think it applies.

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#12

It would definitely be fun to play old versions of the characters.

Can you go into more detail on missions balanced around characters? Which each character only be able to access certain missions from the campaign? Or would they add new missions that are only for certain character types? Example, all melee characters could play a series of melee specific missions, but non melee couldn’t? unless it was multiplayer?

#13

Balencing around characters is where all enemies, (Bosses included), are nerfed / buffed so that the campain is a challenge to the ‘New’ Version of characters. Since AoE has been nerfed alot, they buff individual strength of ‘Lone Wolves’ so too speak, but nerf the group ai.

As for platforming, all characters should be able to do it, but some might need to find ‘Alternate Pathes’ to accomplish this. This would be more freestyle, but would make the QoL of missions better.

And the Melee Dps of the AI would be toned down, or Melee characters have a DR to melee attacks off the back.

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#14

Side bar. I think the maps in this game could EASILY support all kinds of revisit side missions.

And… I do feel like this game would have been stronger if they had focused on PvE or PvP, rather than having both at the start. Perhaps it would have launched the universe as a PvP only game, with some solo/bot practicing missions, but otherwise primarily PvP. Then, within 2 years, a spinoff game or even a DLC pack would have released PvE mode. Close to how Titanfall did things.

Now, I’ll sound like a total hypocrite, but I wasn’t even interested in Overwatch because it’s only PvP. I’d buy that for a good campaign mode.

As for Battleborn again, I love the game but I wish certain aspects were handled differently. Especially the PvE side of the game, which I feel got over-influenced by the PvP side of the game. Including the ability to fail a mission in PvE mode. Which I’m just not comfortable with in Battleborn, especially how quick a loss can occur. “defend vulnerable huge target X which can lose all it’s health in 10 to 15 seconds after spending 20 to 40 minutes to get to this part of the mission”. I’m ok with all of that statement except that I have to restart the whole mission because we failed as a team for just 10 seconds. Don’t cancel the whole mission. Just wipe us back to the latest checkpoint.

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#15

What happens with the immersion or the story telling?

We have limited respawns because llc charges a lot, it teleport us back when vitals drops to low.

similar to varelsis (how suspicious).

Mechanicaly is not hard to do for the devs but how will they explain it inside their universe?

#16

Yeah, which is stated in the PROLOUGE as a side note for rest of game. Doesn’t really matter in the whole Lore side of Battleborn, but sure as hell makes it funny. Failing missions that take so F**king long to do is crap. Its why I really dislike BB. It is really fun, but everything takes so long to get in to and complete that losing feels like a waste of time (Unless it was really close match for both teams PvP wise).

I wish the LLC could create, I don’t know, some sort of TELEPORTING TECH and TIME ALTERING TECH which could be used as umm, lets see, checkpoints? Cough Phoebe Marquis Cough.

(However, for The Heliophage, I don’t want checkpoints. Its by far and away the best mission, and checkpoints would make it pointless.)

It just means that it takes ages to complete certain missions and even longer to get gear for those missions. And thats the other problem with Battleborn. Gear. It is really powerfull, but a pain in the ass to get, and can swing games alone. As much as I like legendary gear, it needs to have 2 seperate States. One which nerfs certain ones (Bolas, Symbiotic Guantlet, etc) for PvP use, and one that has all Legendary gear more powerfull and 500 Shards cheaper, for PvE. You can switch the gear type when adding to loadout.

Oh, and no more Stats rng. Its Bs in missions, its BS in boxs, (Since odds are bad you get the gear you want at first, and even if you get it, it could be a low roll.) and just BS all in all. Really pisses us off.

Sorry if this went off Topic, but needed to say this.

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#17

It can be explained. But respawns probably aren’t “canon” anyhow. Just like they weren’t canon in Borderlands. Your characters don’t ever die unless the writers literally make it part of the main campaign story. Most likely as a cutscene.

#18

Also. Shadow of Mordor is one of the few games i’ve played where the player deaths are considered part of the story. Fantastic system.

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#19

Puts on Tinfoil Hat, gets shaky voice
Ah Ha! Thats where YOU are wrong! In the prologue, Ghalt explains that the checkpoint ‘Syncing System’ saves you Before you actually die! It costs a ■■■■-load though, and why there aren’t unlimited amounts. Its a LLC product, made by “Greedy Basturds” as Ghalt puts it.

Technically, Failing missions isn’t cannon. It just is a boring, gullshit risk that doesn’t need- or heck, wanted, In this game.

@Matrixneo42

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