Balancing the Siren... But You Aren't Going to Like It

In the BL games I typically enjoy playing all the characters and maxing them all out… but my favorites are usually the sirens. This has been the case for BL3 as well… I have maxed out all characters so far, and generally prefer the siren, so I have an objective look at all classes and I’m familiar with what is making the siren work so well right now.

So… that said… I’m going to explain what will balance the siren, post-driver com… but if you only play a siren, you probably aren’t going to like it.

Require the phaselock to grab an enemy and enter cooldown to activate ASE, count toward activating the driver com and any other bonuses related to the phasegrasp. In other words, remove the ability to continuously phasegrasp the ground to activate any of the perks.

Simply put, being able to phasegrasp the ground to activate perks and abilities without a cooldown (and run full speed constantly) is the only thing completely throwing the siren out of balance. Other classes are tired of trying to keep up with the siren, who can keep the driver speed constantly activated. Also, in a team setting, sirens no longer want to phasegrasp enemies because it activates their cooldown and means they will have to, for a short time, stop running full speed. This removes the phasegrasp element from team play, which means less crowd control and less damage spread from TTB. This also frustrates other players.

That is probably the best I can succinctly provide my feedback based on my observations from playing all classes. I enjoy the full speed siren a lot… but it is hurting the game in terms of team play. This is how it can be fixed.

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Having the cooldown reset when you miss was something that was added after launch as I recall. I’ve been assuming that having it still activate any action skill dependent abilities was unintended and they’d eventually get around to fixing it.

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To be clear, I’m not suggesting there should be a cooldown if you miss. I’m suggesting a successful phasegrasp on an enemy should activate cooldown and also be the only way to activate the driver and other benefits of phasegrasping.

It’s easy to miss a phasegrasp and there should not be a cooldown when you miss.

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This is something the siren community has been asking for since launch. Make it like Maya and most of what makes Amara OP is gone. This will balance the Driver COM, Phasezerker COM, Do Harm stacking, etc.

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I haven’t read those posts, but if that’s the case then I agree.

Completely agree. As a Maya main in BL2 and now an Amara main in BL3, I desperately want them to fix the fakegrasp exploit. I can’t imagine any serious Amara player feels differently. The only people who would be upset if refunded grasps didn’t proc skills/anointments/etc. are YouTubers who rely on the broken mechanic to make clickbait videos of “WORLD RECORD?!?” boss and raid clears.

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How does an Amara not grabbing an opponent annoy people or do less crowd control than say Flak going into Fade Away or Zane activating his clone?

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Probably because she has the ability to grab the biggest baddie and hold it still and chain that to multiple other enemies where everyones damage on the big baddie spreads and speeds up the killing immensely but she avoids doing it to selfishly spam her procs. Which is not her fault(the players) because currently, exploiting the broken mechanic is her most effective way to be played(for her but not her teammates).

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I’m just saying a fake grasping Amara is no worse for a team than a fade away Flak, both are just using their action skill to boost their own damage

But Fade away Fl4k is using his skills as intended and doesn’t have the option to do it any other way to benefit the team. Also, if specced properly, Fade Away Fl4k is team-sharing a ton of healing during that Fade Away, by default. (just takes one skill)

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IF specced properly. I have a pure crit build Flak, all I bring to a team with him is my damage. Exactly the same thing as a Fakegrasp Amara. So I don’t see how having a fake grasper is any worse than being matched with my Flak.

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ya am pretty sure its was intended to refund the cd if you missed the ability and its clear that its not a intended mechanics and will get look at in the future

Look if you can’t see how someone having tools to help the team but ignoring said tools to instead exploit a broken mechanic for self gain is annoying to teammates. Nobody is going to be able to show you that.
We are talking about what you have in your current spec. If your Fl4k spec doesn’t have options to help the team then that’s your spec, you bring what you bring. Now if you had a tool in your spec that could help the whole team do everything a lot faster but Fl4k had some broken mechanic to ignore that and instead give himself 500% movespeed, that would be annoying too. But that’s not what the comment was talking about.

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If we lose the ability to trigger annointments etc when missing a grasp, then we need to get something in return, like making those annointments last longer as well as the speed buff, so we don’t have to lose power and deal with down time. An optimized build should have 100% uptime.

You’ll ruin Amara without giving something in return with this fix. Hope they don’t just blindly listen to these people who want to ruin her and make her a lot worse.

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But if the Amara is taking down enemies quicker using fake grasp than without it, or faster than my Flak with my fade away, that’s a good thing overall for the team, not a negative. No you can say it’s unbalanced or whatever, that’s fine, but an Amara fake grasping doesn’t hurt a team any more than if it was a crit Flak, or even a phaseslam Amara.

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Consider the othe scenario where someone dies because Amara coulda grasped a whole group but instead used her superior DPS on a single target because her skill is broken to encourage her to not use it as intended.

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Having to wait that whole 18 secconds; would put anointment procs the same as a rakk attack fl4k and start/exit moze which both cant get as close to amaras; leaving her at a severe advantage over other vh’s. Well ruin balance toward players that dont use grasping aswell

This simply isn’t true. Fl4k can definitely keep 100% uptime on ASE with Rakk. It’s supposed to be the draw of Rakk, and it would be his strength if Amara wasn’t able to pet the ground and proc hers constantly because of unintended interactions. :slight_smile:

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Stil the cooldown to earn another rakk is “18 secconds” without cooldown bonus. The draw is that there are 2 -3 charges.

In practice, it’s very easy to keep the uptime of ASE without any cooldown bonuses or extra rakk. Speaking from experience. That’s without any reductions, but every Rakk build is going to have some way to speed it up, such as headcount.