Battleborn Bible

I’ll get straight to the nitty gritty

The Battleborn Bible is out of date (Thanks @Kitru) and I would like help with an update. :slight_smile:
With the winter update finally arriving and our fabulous new Dojo, there has never been a better time.
Any interested respectable sorts willing to help will be greatly appreciated and any relevant information or helpful suggestions will be as well.
I will be on a buisness trip to Asia from 1/24 a 2/9 so I won’t be doing the bulk of this till I get back.
I’m excited to get started on this and hope it does some good for the community. :grimacing:


I hope you’d be at least willing to help me with 1/30 of this :slight_smile:


You have my claw.


And MY mech!

…If you want it, that is. I don’t count as “respectable” though; just vocal. Very, VERY vocal…


Thanks Cam
Thanks Sophia


Damn glad to have you back on the forums, dude; i had all these math-related questions that went unanswered, and missed your occasional jokes.

My SEVERELY limited knowledge is at your disposal whenever you need it.

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missed you too Cam
Always glad to see another forum goer (forumer?) from the Land of Lincoln

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Do I count as respectable? I sincerely hope not! But I’ll help anyways.

I’m going to be going through all of my guides and updating them with new information, advice, and content from the WU so I’ll be sure to help out with data gathering while doing so.

Is there any specific methodology you’d prefer we use?


Not particularly
I want to retain or build upon the original bibles format

The DPS testing will still probably have to be done through 2 player private PvP

I’d like add more information on gear synergy and Skill damage

Probably add my revamped Movement speed tests when I get around to it

[quote=“Vicks_Toire, post:9, topic:1554581, full:true”]The DPS testing will still probably have to be done through 2 player private PvP

Assuming you’re using the “how long does it take to kill someone from full health while they’re just standing there” method, I still don’t like that methodology since it looks at such a small window of time. Even if the measurement is more precise, it ignores partial combo attacks and ends up with highly skewed results for certain characters and character combinations (especially those like Phoebe who deal more damage the later they are in their combo).

It’s not difficult to ascertain what the base damage of each attack in the combo/clip is and measuring how long it takes to make a full attack/clip can be measured pretty easily if you use a long term approach (i.e. count how many times you finish the combo or reload in a minute of constantly attacking). This makes for a much more accurate reading on attack speed and DPS as a whole (and is much easier for random people to test and verify).

Either way, it’s important that we use the same methodology for all characters since consistent data gathering is important.

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I agree TTK is heavily flawed
In the case of characters like Phoebe there would have to be separation between short and long DPS
Not all engagements would see a full combo and knowing how much she can do to a target in 60 seconds wouldn’t be very helpful in that case

As @EdenSophia knows Melka’s melee may do BLAH BLAH BLAH in terms of numbers but that doesn’t mean much if the last move in the combo knocks the target away

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[quote=“Vicks_Toire, post:11, topic:1554581, full:true”]In the case of characters like Phoebe there would have to be separation between short and long DPS

Well, the problem here is that there are so many factors that can influence short DPS. Even if an attack damage item provides 9.1% increased damage, the TTK method could show negligible returns if it the damage is just enough at the right spot (as with Rath’s “Spin to Win” helix which ends up as a ~15% increase in DPS based on long calculations but a 5% increase on short calculations).

Buffs/debuffs, gear (for both parties), and level (for both parties) all affect TTK DPS numbers so, from a testing perspective in which you’re controlling for all of those, the value ends up being negligible.

The closest you’d get to a useful “short DPS” time scale would be separately tracking “short DPS”, defined as (for combo attackers) “the amount of damage dealt by a single combo divided by the amount of time it takes to activate that combo” and (for reload characters) “the amount of damage dealt by a full clip without having to reload”. Damage profiles for combos (to show that Phoebe deals different damage with each attack in her combo) will also be useful.

Even if you trap someone in a corner, repeatedly venom them every four seconds with Refined Canisters, and melee away, the TTK of the primary is still higher.

I tested it today: TTK on a level 4 Attikus for primary alone was 15.58 seconds, TTK for venom melee was 16.17 (including primary shots to apply venom), TTK for melee with no venom was 18.25 seconds.

Also relevant:

In 15.58 seconds, a level 8 Mellka used to output 715 venom damage.
In 15.58 seconds, she now produces ~180.

Huge sustain nerf, primary is still better.

But yes, there’s also that knockback. :smirk:

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Short DPS could also be based off the average length of engagement between characters
like a global average
Would be hard to put a solid value on that but it’s either that, what you suggest, or an arbitrary number like 5s

You can all discuss among yourself any ideas you might have for this project
We can get crackin when I get back

You kids play nice
See you in two weeks