#12

I just cant see Rath or ISIC being S tier.

Rath just blows up anytime he goes near a team. Easily countered and even easier to completely shut down. C tier

ISIC is a little harder to say. He performs his role pretty well, but nerfing anything he has now would just drop him to near uselessness. High B Tier

Thorn may be S Tier, but has a pretty steep learning curve which helps balance her out. I would consider her A tier. Only thing that needs to be toned down is her ability to kill minions with blight. Longer CD would help here i think.

Ambra I would see is C Tier. She doesnt do anything that another character can do better.

Caldarius is C tier. He has great mobility but has a BB gun for a weapon. Never seen a caldarius control/dominate a game. Easily killed 1v1 by most characters.

#13

No way cald is C tier
he’s A, B played badly
but he has a pretty high skill ceiling like thorn
the gun can drop rath in a clip and a half

#14

I guess that could work, I just want to make it as factual as a tier list could possibly be. The reason for classification is just because I think it’s easier to look at it like that, but if polls would work for you guys, then I could set up those threads.

As for Ghalt, I classified him as defender because he’s more territorial in my opinion than an attacker, or at least from what I’ve seen.

#15

You can say that about every character.

I have never seen a Caldarius control/dominate a game like a good Melka/ISIC/Alani/Thorn/Toby/Marquis/Oredni/Galilea/Miko/Reyna/Kelvin/Oscar Mike/ Phoebe/Kleese/Ghalt/El Dragon/Rath can.

I would place him below every single one of those characters. If you cant support, and do minimal damage, with low health pool, why should I bring Caldarius over anyone else?

#16

I definitely have to agree with this. Caldarius’ role is a skirmisher who serves as an annoyance to the enemy. The problem is, Mellka fits this role much better. She’s arguably more mobile, harder to hit, has DoT and decent damage, along with a slow which is superior to a blind that Caldarius has. She also has a much more usable ult, so overall there’s no reason to choose Caldarius over Mellka, and this is definitely not because Mellka is overpowered. As you mentioned, she can dominate a game but a strong Caldarius still won’t have much of an impact.

#17

Rath - Catalytic Smah w/ Silence, Dreadwind, GG
He also puts out good damage and destroys every other attacker and support. Not to mention Dreadwind. His only issue is high health defenders and getting slowed. Other than that, he’s a god.

ISIC - Where to begin. The fact that he’s the only ranged character with a shield? His ultimate has the highest DPS in the game with no timer? Rotating Wards reflect fire is broken?

Like, he can literally out-snipe Marquis and win because Charge Cannon’s accuracy is extremely good. I can’t tell you how many Marquis players i’ve pissed off.
Then there’s the slow on his Charge Cannon and the extra damage to boot.
And lets not forget the 1000 Aegis Shield he gets at level 10 for his ultimate that literally comes back every 6 seconds. Or how Reflect Fire reflects various skills and ultimates that certain character depend on.
Whiskey vs. ISIC. There’s no hope for Whiskey. Once the Rotating Wards with Reflect Fire pop up its GG. EVERYTHING Whiskey has will get reflected back at him.

ISIC is a cross between Attacker and Defender. He’s borderline the best character in the game.

Now Thorn is S tier for a reason. She may not have as many options as ISIC, but her damage output with her small ass frame and insane jump height is ridiculous.
All that happens is that Blight gets Slow, get extra DPS, and Gives Thorn a movement speed boost for the quick escape. Blight, as mentioned destroys minions like nothing and keeps players from doing anything. Marquis’ Temporal Distortion at least has a delay before activating. Blight is instant and it’s base DPS is already good. Combine that with her extra 25% - 35% on cursed targets and it’s like getting shot by a rapid fire sniper rifle.
The WORST is Wrath of the Wild. This is one of the most busted ultimates in the game. It’s bad enough that it’s damage is all concentrated into one shot, but it can leave a blight field and instantly kill any non-defender in 1 shot if they get cursed. At level 10 WotW does 750 by itself. Add curse with the extra 10% and it’s 1000+ easy. And that’s not counting any skill damage boosting gear items.

#18

Rath - Catalytic Smah w/ Silence, Dreadwind, get stunned/slowed dead rath. Any decent team is going to see the giant animation for smash and know exactly where he is. Any decent player will then look at rath and proceed to CC him and murder him. Oh and quick melee.

Sure you can deal some damage, but you cant use any skills and are basically stuck standing still. Any CC will remove you from it. Standing still is just asking to get nuked as well. Rotating wards blocks 500 damage (total) and doesnt work on melee. If a Marquis dies in a “sniper” fight with ISIC, hes a pretty bad Marquis.

Almost all of your arguments are when character reach level 10. Half the level 10 helix choices in the game are incredibly overpowered. Thats kinda the point, its the last level and they want you to end the game.

#19

Rath is an assassin though. He’s mean’t come from the sides or behind an opponent. That’s one of the reasons why it’s so effective. You can just straight up Dreadwind a character and 8/10 they’re going to die. If Dreadwind doesn’t do it, then a teammate will. It’s basically a free kill setup. Also, not EVERY CC will force him out of Dreadwind. All Attackers and Supports are guarnteed to die from this due to their low health pools and most are incapable of doing anything.
Oscar Mike - All he can do is turn invisible and hopes Rath spins somewhere else.

Whiskey Foxtrot - Unless he has the ability to push himself or the opponent with Scrap Cannon, he’s dead. And since 99.9% don’t, it’s GG.

Ambra - Unless Solar Wind can pushback enemies, she’s done.

Miko - Needs Stun Spore and a Fungus + Biosynthesis to survive. Done for without it.

Ghalt - Hook or a lucky Scraptrap. If they’re on cooldown, that’s it.

Deande - Needs Uppercut or a Holotwin and pray Rath goes away.

Reyna - Has to give a Shield Booster to survive.

Marquis - Unless he gets the speed boost from Temporal Distortion, also dead.

The point is that even with a team that has an actual IQ, if Rath plays it paitent and waits for them to use or miss their skills, Dreadwind WILL kill. I’ve seen it happen too many times and have done it too many times. End of story.

ISIC doesn’t need his skills while in Omega Strike. He just has to gun them down before they can kill him first. If ISIC needs to escape, he can manually deactivate and run away with Wards then Plasma Dash. Even if he’s CC’d or forced out of his ultimate, he’s still a tank. He will 7/10 escape.

Rotating Wards Reflect fire will actually not get destroyed by certain attacks no matter how many times. Like Overdrive. Overdrive will literally have all of its bullets reflected back at Whiskey and he will die unless he stops. Rotating Wards won’t even be effected. Same for Toby’s railgun.
And even if Melee goes through Wards, Plasma Dash. If it’s on cooldown slow with the Overcharged Cannon and run, or quick melee them away. (Or Aegis Shield until Plasma Dash comes back)

#20

The only problem I see with this list is Deande being listed as a Skimisher. Her dash speed, short range, and lack of punishing things outside of abilities isn’t made to hit and run, but to hit and stay committed to the same target. But by this list and if others agree that she’s a skirmisher than she has to be the worse out the bunch without a doubt.

#21

I disagree
a good cald is one of the biggest factors in a game, MUCH more mobile than melka, and blind is frankly brutal
not to mention: he can circle strafe faster than you can turn, regardless of controller settings.
1v1, cald wins, basically.
obviously very few fights are 1v1 but he forces enemies to pair up or get crushed

#22

Is this going to be based off of competitive drafts or blind pug teams? Both options are going to develop their own metagames, and the meta is going to be one of the biggest factors in determining character tiers. For example, if marquis is always a part of the metagame, then characters like benedict, kleese, and toby are going to suffer in the standings. If anything, a tier list should be made for team compositions rather than individual characters.

#23

I actually fear a good Cald over a good melka, even as a melee. Melka is annoying that’s true, but not Caldarius annoying. THere’s nothing worse than engaging an enemy and as soon as you are either about to KO or retreat you get blinded. It’s sooooo annoying, and sometimes because of it it’s really easy to get flanked. While I feel Melka can handle the melee characters Outside of Attikus much better (I’m really starting to think he is a Melka soft counter) Caldarius overall does more to the cast. Also Melka’s escape is a one trick pony escape and Caldarius has speed on top of double jump boosting.

#24

I really don’t feel this way, with such a small HP pool, nearly any character can kill him that has access to CC and not a main attack that’s fairly hard to hit, such as Marquis at close range or Orendi. Mellka is much harder to hit and had an escape that literally launches you out of anything, where Caldarius can easily be blocked and is a straight line. After playing and mastering Mellka, it’s nearly impossible to kill her. I have under 100 deaths with over 500 kills after about 22 hours of PvP only. She can slow and by level 8 can shred any character.

#25

I think the biggest problem is that Caldarius is very easily to lure into a trap of multiple players. It could be just me but the blind is practically useless. I have never had a problem with it, where a slow and poison literally forces you to escape in a 1v1. I definitely agree with Attikus though, because while playing Mellka he was one of the very few Battleborn I feared. Technically yes, but it’s ONLY used for escape and the timing and use is so unpredictable because of how far you get launched.

1 Like
#26

Blind is the weakest CC by far in the game. Against anyone who has ANY map awareness it does nothing. At worst, you are slightly turned around. It only lasts 1-2 seconds. If it was 5 seconds, ya it would be annoying. But 1 second? I know exactly where I am and where Im going even if i cant see for 1 second. All it does is let Caldarius think he has got the jump on me and makes it easier for me to crush him.

Adding a slow in addition to his blind would be helpful, but probably not enough for him to be more useful than any other character.

2 Likes
#27

Tripleflash is longer trust me, but you’d also be amazed what 1 second can do in a flank scenerio. Knockback is the worse CC imo if it cannot stun on environments but to each it’s own. Being able to add slow would be nice as an additional CC would be nice.

#28

I use to think the same thing until I realized that retreating from Mellka is where the damage comes from once slowed. You just move out of poison circle and folloow her on your map. Once you realize she cannot jump anymore it’s just a matter of timing your attacks to either pressure her in a corner in a small area, cause while she’s small, her pistol doesn’t do as much as you’d think.

The reason why attikus doesn’t fear melka I feel is that even if she uses her spike she is still within punching range for him. It seems the smaller the char the more annoying melka is.

I fear caldarius more cause a good cal will always stay out of range shooting you from a distance. His movement speed is much better and he can boost backwards if he feels you get to close. He will either harass you long enough until help arrives or retreat a safe enough distance just to harass you some more. It’s so annoying but effective.

#29

Even so, so long as you aren’t completely out of position and are aware, it’s fairly easy to get a kill while blinded, etc. At least from my personal experience, being blinded is a non factor, although I will agree that aside from a few specific instances, knock back is arguably the worst.

#30

It’s not the blind so much that does the killing, it’s just annoying, and good cald’s will use that. I’ve found the Caldarius that are best are when you are occupied with another opponent (usually melee) and you get blinded. In cases of rath if you are blinded you won’t know where he’s hitting you, which will give him alot of damage to stack up. But other than that they just hovering around you outside of attack range, which i’ve found to be way more effective in terms of damage.

Mellka may be a better character overall I dunno cause I don’t play either, but i’m always finding myself dreading an amazing caldy over mellka every time.

#31

But by always saving Claw Lunge as an escape, you will never not be able to jump and escape. Also, while playing her it’s definitely not wise to go near corners, so against skilled Mellka players this won’t work. There’s a reason that she so rarely dies even when there’s an enemy dominating the game or an entire team dominating. Mellka’s pistol might not do much, but it’s very very hard to hit her with most characters as you keep bouncing around. I guess to each his own, but I’d love to show you her capabilities and how she’s more effective if you’re on XB1.