im surprised nihilism orendi isnt banned. i know shes a huge nuiscance on pc. give her preamble with nihilism and its doing the same damage as her ult on very short cooldowns, allowing her to take out half of a lot of characters health with no trouble at all. once shes gets her ult, thats just a longer wind-up, well announced pillar.
You’re using bots battle as a threshold for competitive play. You aren’t challenging the status quo, you’re just making ill informed statements.
Nobody is saying anything about this. I think randomly buffing a character by 18% or whatever the exact number is absurd and I’ve said multiple times that patches such as the final patch should not happen. Keep the player informed of everything that’s happening.
We’ve been debating about this, but it’s a slippery slope banning helixes. Nobody like nihilism though so if it was just removed I’d be stoked.
Those 2 sentences are in relation to 2 different points I made. And regardless, I don’t think my statement about Toby being more-than-likely able to achieve more over all damage, is false.
The hotfix OM received was one he needed. He was one of the least picked Battleborn in higher level play since October 2016. What occurred in the patch is different, and that statement was for Cam.
The fact you think OM’s buff was “absurd and random” after he went 11 months of being one of the worst characters is utterly insane.
What more can i say? If you don’t think that the combined opinions of every well-known and highly-skilled Toby main on PS4 are of importance, then there is ABSOLUTELY no point in having a discussion about it.
One more thing:
Where the hell did i say that i support the last patch? ANYWHERE? I’m beyond pissed about it, and i’ve stated it multiple times both here and on PSN. So i don’t know where the hell this^ is coming from.
That’s it now. I’m done. You’ll not get another response out of me, no matter what is said, because all that’s accomplished from this discussion is that i’m mad, and i’d rather not get banned. Have a good one.
Then give me the proof. Give me half a dozen end game screen shots of Toby and OM on the same team.
You didn’t. I was saying being fine with this league’s thought process is effectively one and the same. They feed off one another and drive Battleborn down the same path.
That’s enough of that, folks. Move on.
I’mma just put this out there - you could get 70+ kills against bots with nothing but a wet noodle and a somewhat murderous attitude.
Ha, you’re the first one who doesn’t know me who referred to me as Crow on the forums
To the question at hand though; Oscar Mike is honour banned due to a unanimous consensus across the Captains and a general desire from the participants for him to be so.
A significant portion of the participants in the league participate in what is generally speaking considered to be the sweaty 10-mans on PS4. There he’s honour banned as well due to popular demand.
So far, no one (as far as I know) has disputed or disagreed with the honour ban in either the league or the regular 10-mans. When I’ve posted preliminary rules to both Captains and numerous participants, I’ve been vocal about that it was a preliminary draft of the rules and it’s subject to change. If anyone, regardless of who, had any form of objection or ideas for what to improve upon, they’ve been asked to speak up to make sure the rules are generally accepted amongst the participants. No one’s objected to the Oscar Mike honour ban.
So that’s the direct reason; popular demand combined with indifference to it.
Indirectly, why most want him honour banned, is largely his damage output in relation to his lack of counterplay.
Toby’s exceptional damage pre-nerf was counterbalanced with him being easily countered comparatively speaking. In the sweaty 10-mans, Toby was certainly a desired powerhouse in almost all instances if you had someone who could play him. Most couldn’t play him on a competitive level because they’d feed too hard, be too severely babysitted to make significant contributions etc. Outside of the dedicated Toby mains, few tried to play him. Some got him to work, but not necessarily be the huge threat a lot of Toby mains were considered to be. And those that did didn’t enjoy it too much because they felt it was too much of an effort or too stressful to play Toby at that level and make him work if they’re putting out DPS which is on par to Marquis, Whiskey ISIC or any other sniper.
But Oscar Mike? He doesn’t have any direct counter play. A fantastic single target damage, area denial on his ultimate which potentially becomes the highest DPS skill in the game while having the ability to cloak and gain 30% movement speed during said time. He has a relatively small body, so he doesn’t make the entrance a Toby would when he starts laying into you, making him really easy to miss. Especially since his damage is still gradual and not big chunks of damage so it’s more difficult to tell when his laying into you.
Being one of the worst characters doesn’t make them inherently bad, as was the case with Oscar Mike. Same goes for Mellka. The added spread and reduced venom damage killed her for most of the community to the point where she was considered useless. And while she’s generally speaking considered to be on the weaker end of the spectrum, she’s by no means useless and can certainly put in work. Oscar Mike was the same.
He could’ve used a buff, but not such a significant buff to his base attack damage.
It’s a nuisance on PS4 as well. We discussed it and, as Nova said, landed in a no for now because of it being a potential slippery slope. If we ban Nhilism, do we also ban Montana’s Lumberjack Blast for being able to knockback & stun through walls for instance? Or Ernest’s Eggslowerator which permanently and unconditionally provides a significant slow on top of damage reduction? I got a feeling we’ll revisit it at some point, but for now we decided to leave it.
Okay. Please debate Toby elsewhere. Now.
I find honor bans to be healthy for comp games when it comes to Battleborn. Nearly all the 10 mans I’ve done before we started doing honor bans would go exactly the same way with picks and bans. But honor bans eliminate just a little more of the top tier and make for more variety in games.
The big problem with Oscar Mike right now, is that on ps4 at least, only thorn is of similiar utility and power. With Stealth Attack being a thing, OM has straight up one of the best bursts in the game. With Space Lasers he can rush and/or backdoor a sentry faster, than anybody else. And trust me, i dont know about backdooring on pc or xbox, but its a big thing on ps4. Havent had a ten man without backdooring in a while now, and OM is hands down the best backdoorer.
His Ult till level 10, still deals a good chunk of damage, but most importantly can win large amounts or area very easily, and you can push with nothing, but an OM Ult.
Once he hits level 10, space lasers deal ridicioulusly high damage. And its becomes one of the best burst ultimates in the game. The difference between orendi or thorn and OM level 10 isnt that huge, just that space lasers has mor utility and more damage.
This leads tot he reason why he is godtier on Meltdown too: He has high burst with stealth attack, he has ammazing wave clear with nades and ult, he can compete at range if necessary, he has a good escape, and most importantly he can space laser big bots. He can solo-defend lanes even against high-level bigbots.
But i think the main reason, why a lot of people wanna see him banned, is that in ten mans where he wasnt banned, the team that had him, almost always won.
I think a more interesting thing to point out about the rules, is that if you slap on an econ set and win you lose 2 points. But if you slap on a borrowed timer, and win, you still get a point, cause you lose only one.
- what constitutes as an “exploit”? Elaborating on this I think is necessary to make sure nobody unknowingly gets their team docked a point.
- Why is Taunting something that results in a .5 point deduction PER OFFENSE again? It’s part of the game. Also taunting comes with Risks. Taunting is also tactical. Taunting is also fun and 100% harmless unless U SO SERIOUS. I think this, above all rules, is dumb. Then there is also the fact that a lot of friends will be up against each other. Most people don’t take it seriously, shouldn’t take it seriously, and won’t take it at all serious.
- What is meant by “Dedicated Team Members”?
My questions and concerns.
Also a big RIP for Shard of Solus.
Clothesline en fuego was at least my go to reason for an example of an exploit. It is clearly not intended to be in the game because of your ability to not be able to do it in the dojo.
We decided on no taunts because of our emphasis on on keeping toxicity numbers to a minimum. It in itself is not exactly toxic in my book, but it works as a catalyst to create toxic environments.
Dedicated team members are players that were drafted to a specific team. We also have a handful of players that volunteered to be dedicated substitutes in case complications arose that can play if any team is lacking players for whatever reason
ice yesterday brought up monty stuns through walls, there are alot of ‘exploits’ ernest egg/kleese rift placement, ambra sprint glitch, ect… most are non-factors but still exploits, but I guess my question is what is punishable.
Oh ok. I sorta-kinda get it now.
Can each team have a Dedicated Thrower? Wink Wink Nudge Nudge Smiley Face
I’ve never viewed Monty stuns through walls as an exploit tbh. It’s been well known and that’s pretty much what the helix was designed to do. The main one was the clothesline glitch I talked about earlier. Most of the other ones are non factors as you said, but if a major one is used that crow or I are unaware of, it’ll be treated as an exploit.
Tl;Dr: don’t do anything that gives your team a significant advantage that you or other people might see as sketchy
The montana stun is working the ways it intended i think. Same thing with ernest egg and ambra spots working vertical to a certain level.
Clothesline-Enfuego is exploity.
Spin cancel might be exploity.
Hidding in the wall on coldsnap is exploity.
Putting miko ult behind walls is exploity.
Getting knocked up on Echelon by a Thrall and being able to cheese sentry from an otherwise unreachable platform is exploity.
I probably forgot some…
Maybe you guys should add some rules regarding known game bugs, like doubles glitching up on monuments, thralls not spawning at all on overgrowth, Gali forcing ragequits, immortal minions…
Piggy-backing on this; I think Echelon as a map choice should be banned.
I’m not talking purely based on my own personal hate of the map, but there is really a whole lot that makes that map unfair in a competitive scenario.
Yes, the cheesing is bad but worst of all, and the main reason that it SHOULD be eliminated entirely from the map choices, is that minions get stuck attacking Mid-Thralls randomly.
This causes a couple of issues.
1.) Minion waves get delayed indefinitely until
a. The Thralls are Killed
b. The Minions are killed
I’ve seen 2-3 minion waves stuck on Double Thralls on Echelon.
2. ) Double Thralls is a big game changer. For them to be capped after being killed 100% by minions with 0% player involvement is a joke.
I would say the map should be deleted from the game entirely, but that’s for another topic…
Saw a kleese hording minions behind his sentry once. He unleashed a quintuple minion wave on us. Still dont know how he did it. Any intel is welcome though