This is why I support having one or two honor bans. I think getting rid 4 characters with standard bans isn’t enough to create variety in games. I don’t care who’s on honor ban as long as it’s one of the characters that would be 100% guaranteed to be either banned or picked in comp (OM, Thorn, Rath etc.). Place one or two of those characters on honor ban and the game becomes much more balanced because it let’s you get rid of enough of the CC meta in normal bans without the powerhouse characters like Dragon, Thorn or Mike getting through.
- Leave Dragon as is - clothesline ult and all - to be banned/picked first every game and dominate the draft.
- Why debate the definition of exploits - honour ban for the luchador.
- Respectfully ask that no one uses the clothesline-ultimate.
- Don’t permit more than +630 max health (or something) on gear to prevent the unstoppable dives.
- Uninstall and play some other moba where the game still sees frequent balance fixes. (Jesus christ guys, calm down)
This is probably the best thing to do. And also banning the level 10 ult glitch.
For Orendi, Nihilism is just ridiculous. The amount of times you can cast it… it’s not very fun to play against. Being able to cast high amounts of instant, undodgeable damage is just stupid. At least with Hawkeye or Wrath of The Wild you can dodge/avoid it, but with Nihilism it’s instant and unavoidable.
I think it’s harsh to outright ban dragon for his two exploits… I don’t think banning a helix is necessary either… Just don’t be a fun sucking dope when you pick him lol
It becomes more akin to DDR than a FPS-like thing at that point. Memorize the buttons and timing to lockdown the enemy (enemies) of your choice. Tanks won’t typically live either. Actually, with that ult glitch I think lv5 Dragon is the best character in the game.
Why ban him? Honestly I have ever seen this so called exploit done once in a 10 man and said Dragoon sprinted right into my Shayne for a virtual disentigration of said Dragoon. You have to remember Dragoon is frail.
That glitch beats deande’s kit but with no gear requirement and much less warning. And about the frail part, that is until lv6 kicks in with ten stacks. Add his HP gear and forget it. I think his effective defense rivals Attikus.
With max health stacking he is far from frail.
No other character can hard CC twice in a row in an area of effect without being easily interrupted and putting out a ton of burst damage.
I seriously think some people are underestimating this one.
With that last part you’re getting a bit too detailed for me to counter this. But if we ignore the last part (or are at least more lenient), these characters can double AoE hard CC…
- Alani level 10 (Doesn’t need it, but there is an exploit for this one too)
Kelvin/Montana have far more counterplay and while they can chain two hards CC’s by themselves I would argue that they are easier to interrupt - Montana’s ult has a delay - also I would go further to state that the mutation on Lumberjack dash (the more commonly used option), Sublimate and Ice Wall don’t cover the desired area/choke point as reliably as Knock-up>Dragon splash.
The detail you’re looking for - Kelvin/Monty after using their two hard CC skills are limited to low AOE damage from the ground pound, and single target damage respectively. They are unlikely to kill the multiple targets they have CC’d without follow up from their team.
Compare this to El Dragon who will have +20% attack speed at level 6, spamming clap and applying the DoT effect from En Fuego to everyone who is stunned while they take damage from Electrifying splash. He can do far more by himself to the area he has chain CC’d than the two examples you gave.
Besides all of this you’ve just compared the CC abilities of an Assassin to two Tank/Controllers.
I’d venture to say that if you didn’t interrupt the initial skill, then you’re not going to interrupt the Ult that follows. The same can be said for the follow up Dragon Splash.
It’s no longer the era of Dragon Splash having a 2 second stun and a massive AoE, not to mention the drastic nerf to his primary and clap. If you’re letting Dragon kill 2+ reasonably healthy targets solo, then I feel the fault lies with opposing team, not Dragon.
On PC Dragon Splash is rarely used as an offensive ability anymore. It’s used as an off-brand escape after you use Clothesline as an engage, with the regen at 6. As it is small, does little DoT damage, and you usually end up juggled on top of the enemies you stunned.
So AoE wise he doesn’t pump out that much damage, and the bleed needs to stack to become truly effective.
All the characters are different (and Dragon isn’t technically an Assassin), and that statement doesn’t encompass the entirety of their abilities. Just talking about the 2 skills each would need to use, Monty also gains 75% DR and does more AoE damage, and Kelvin regens his shield, is immune to damage, and creates a wall.
Dragon also burns all 3 skills to get that. Kelvin still has that 500 burst damage, and Monty has an extra 50% DR and slow on his primary. And just in terms of CC, the tanks have better overall. Dragon has the knock up and a 1 second stun (feels shorter), while Kelvin has a 4 second stun, and Monty has a double knock up.
Oh, and why didn’t you mention Alani?
It’s easier for a teammate that wasn’t affected by the initial CC to interrupt a giant Montana doing his slow stomp than a Dragon Splashing El Dragon in my opinion.
I didn’t say that Dragon will kill full health targets, I said he will do more damage alone to multiple targets after chaining hard CC than Montana or Kelvin.
Since the buff to his DR and when stacking max health the health regen is so small it really doesn’t add to his survivability and I may be mistaken but there was also a change to the way shield regen works which prevents the shield from continuing to charge after taking damage. It’s not a very effective helix choice. Plus if you were using the clothesline ult combo you would take the attack speed to maximise it’s ridiculous potential because
funnily enough the increased attack speed helps it stack onto multiple enemies rather quickly.
Because having a double CC is reasonable after reaching the power helix at level 10 and shouldn’t really factor into a discussion regarding what other characters can achieve for the majority of the game.
The thing is, you can’t do this in the dojo which would suggest it’s not intended to be used this way. Everything about the traditional way his kit works makes sense:
If he ults in front of you - CC before he stuns you.
If he ults around the corner - stay away from him.
If he uses Clothesline to close the gap after ulting - he won’t knock you up. Etc.
He closes the gap so fast while chaining two hard CC’s and following it up with a large amount of damage while having over 2.5k effective health with the typical loadout. Are you just arguing about the CC abilities of certain Battleborn or do you think this is fair/balanced?
Would you like to be made aware of it? All you have to do is call him “dragoon” again and you got yourself a deal.
When people are talking about the El Dragon exploit, are we literally just talking about the knock up, ult, splash combo, or is there some glitch involved that I’m not aware of?
I’d note that it takes El Dragon longer to recover from his own splash than the stunned target. It’s still fairly easy to escape into safety, or lure Dragon into a dangerous position, considering he would has lost his escape at this point.
I agree he can be Op, especially in meltdown, as he can’t be 5v1d, and he seems to have better minion clear ability than any other melee outside of Ground Zero Deande. His issue is that he is a ‘grower’ which in theory means he is UP for the first half and OP for the second. However in reality, he’s UP for the first 10% and OP for the last 90%. I’d like to see his stacks increase by half the amount, but allow for double the stacks, and move his knock up to level 8 or 9.
You are able to activate En Fuego at the exact same time as Clothesline. This allows you to dash forward > knock up > Dragon splash stun with no delay at all.
Your character rushes forward while doing the En Fuego “flex” animation, funny to watch but not nice being on the receiving end.
Did not know this. I pinky promise not to use it.
Why does this feel like a bit of a threat? Lol. I think you did it to me while I was playing Kelvin. I dunno. I misfired my sublimate right as the pop up was thrown from flailing fists. So bad luck/timing on my part. But knowing it exists, patience would have to be applied to applying escape skills. I don’t play Dragoon often, but I am aware of the builds needed to play him effectively, still. I don’t feel the exploit is a worthy ban target simply because the first time it is used, if I was playing the hard CC on my team, I would hold my CC for Dragoons who are waiting to use it. Follow ups with teammates after the exploit would make this a pain, but generally and hypothetically I don’t see this as Oscar Mike level threatening
Gearbox is pretty lazy about matching models in motion to their hitboxes, you’d be surprised.
Or the very common “knock you up and Ult while you’re bouncing on his head”. Effectively what this exploit is, just a bit slower.
And the stun isn’t that powerful in terms of Dragon capitalizing on it. The radius is so small that you basically have to bounce on their heads just to get the stun off. And by the time you touch the ground the stun has already worn off.
Ey that’s me
League’s starting the 11th of January, the week after new years. Added it to the original post.
The taunting rule got removed.
A lone moon beam penetrates the silence as it casts a piercing glow upon a lone figure in the center of the thread’s still amphitheater. Rose petals trickle through the visual cadence as the ringing quiet is broken by the most beautiful yet masculine sound that are feesibly able to be processed by human ears and scientific equipment alike: