BattleCruiser 'Overpowered' simple solution

Homeworld Remastered Collection Homeworld Remastered Multiplayer
#1

Simply make the default limit for Battlecruisers = 1. Nothing else needs changing!

The BC still remains a powerful flagship for your fleet, but now it is possible to disable and/or destroy it.

The real balance problem isn’t the first BC. The time/tech investment for it is balanced. The problem is the second and third BC (which are dirt cheap for the power they wield). Having a default unit cap of 1 fixes all of this.

In a fleet battle, it is now possible (and feasible) to attempt to disable a single BCs subsystems. When there were 3 BCs coming at you = what’s the point of losing a bunch of strikecraft/corvettes trying to slow down 1, when the other 2 will just get into range and kill you anyway! With just 1, subsystem/module attacks can now possibly change the outcome of a battle.

I know I’ve posted this idea in another topic, but I think it is such a simple (and effective) solution = I wanted to make sure the Devs saw it…

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#2

I’d actually support this idea, but then limit HW1 HC production to 1 ship as well.

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#3

Phew! I’m glad I’m not the only who thinks this a simple but effective idea…

As for the HW1 races Heavy Cruisers, they aren’t as powerful as the Battlecruiser. Once upgraded, a BattleCruiser can match 2 Heavy Cruisers…

So maybe only 2 HeavyCruisers for the HW1 races?

#4

I have no problem with that.
I think this might work =)

i found out that a HC supported by repair ships, vettes or frigates, can take down an upgraded BC, so it is fine to be just 1

#5

I think that if you just adjusted the scale it’d work wonders. So right now, standard cap has 3 bc slots, make it only 1, set huge cap to 3 bcs, then set whatever comes after to what huge has now.

Also, if this gets implemented, you’d need to rework marine frigs a bit. If you are at the cap already, a captured ship should be insta-scuttled (even if this doesn’t get implemented, the mariners need this feature)

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#6

The great part is how frigates and destroyers will be useful mid-late game.

Oh wow! I just thought of something now!

Everyone who builds 3 Battlecruisers, also build a Hyperspace Module, a Fire Control Tower and a Gravity Well Generator for them as well…but they have to spread this out amongst the 3 Battlecruisers, since each one can only have 2 modules.

With only 1 BC, you can only pick 2 modules…this will greatly encourage players to use carriers (probably will be assigne the Hyperspace Module). So now Carriers will actually be more than upgraded Resource Controllers!

We’ll start to see players actually use carriers as part of their combat fleet!

This idea just keeps getting better!

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#7

Wow Kadeshi, I didn’t think of that. Great tactic for increasing the power of HeavyCruisers!

Sure, the HW2 factions can do the same, but collectors explode a lot faster than Repair Frigates! Even if the BC has to kill the Repair Frigates, that is a lot of damage that the HC ISN’T taking!

With that insight, I agree. Only 1 HeavyCruiser cap limit for HW1 factions. Besides, the HW1 guys can hyperspace it without any modules = it’s not like it doesn’t have its own advantage!

#8

So now Carriers will actually be more than upgraded Resource Controllers!

Yeah, that is a rookie viewpoint on carriers.

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#9

Lol, so true.

Also, since we would only have 1 hangar on a BC (instead of 3 hangars with 3 BCs), we’d want a carrier to help with repairing damaged fighters/corvettes = even more reason to use carriers!

Who knows, maybe we’ll even start seeing people use all the other special ships/abilities to win. Since having 3 BCs = win, why would anyone want to use ships like minelayers (not much effect against BCs), Defense Field Frigates/fighters (no use against Ion Canons and Trinity Canon). So with a BC/HC unit cap of 1, maybe we’ll see these ships used more often.

#10

Isn’t this just avoiding the issue? I want to see a longer mid game which doesn’t involve super capitals as well but I don’t think increasing scarcity is a good solution. Ideally we should be able to see an end game with super capital fleets being relevant and part of a logical progression, what needs to change is the fact that currently they are so powerful they are making early game units completely irrelevant.

As a simple idea to change things up, has anyone considered simply increasing hyperspace costs exponentially for destroyers and BC’s. Part of their power is their ability to overcome their debilitating slowness with hyperspace, if this is extremely expensive any long range moves with them will become resource intensive and almost as expensive as buying the ship in the first place. The free high speed movement of fighters and corvettes will become more important for late game harass and even frigates will become more important for similar reasons. Destroyers and BC’s would either be used in expensive all or nothing strikes or more likely become the core for slower moving fleets that involve much more positional play.

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#11

I agree. Limiting the BC to just one isn’t fixing the core issue which is its exponential leap in stats over the destroyer.

As you say, battlecruisers are a logical progression just like heavy cruisers in HW classic and multiple units should be buildable but the BC’s current role as “anti-everything-except-strikecraft” needs to be nerfed.

#12

It sounds like you agree that this indirectly fixes the imbalance…but that you think there is a greater issue. Personally, I’ll be happy with the issue just being fixed (indirectly or otherwise). A default BC limit of 1 ship = fixed! Building 1 BC takes time/RUs that are balanced for the power it weilds. The problem is the 2nd and 3rd BC afterwards are dirt cheap for their power!

Players who want a lot of BCs in their game can play with the larger fleet option.

As far as ‘slowing’ them down by increasing their hyperspace cost…that would be another way of balancing, but it would have to be a massive increase in hyperspace cost. On small maps = would make zero difference…but who on small maps gets a BC out? On medium maps, you would end up having 3 slow unstoppable behemoths crawling across the map at you…the only counter would be to build 3 BCs of your own to (slowly) stop them…again, early-medium units are nearly irrelevant. 3 BCs will eventually reach you (and kill you) unless you had 3 BCs of your own. Problem isn’t fixed as your death is only delayed.

A BC unit cap of 1 = you actually stand a chance of disabling it and taking it out with early-mid units. Problem = fixed!

#13

It would be necessary to also block the option of transfer a cruiser to another player, or else there will be one player on the team producing non stop and spreading it to the team.

#14

You already can’t do that AFAIK, since you can’t transfer production ships in RM.

#15

Yeah but they will fix transfer eventually

#16

Maybe not now…

Still, good call on a potential problem.

Here’s a thought! Ever notice how the Vagyr never use Hyperspace Gates? One of the reasons is because they don’t work with BattleCruisers…and since BCs are the end-all-be-all = why build Hyperspace Gates? With only 1 BC, Destroyers and Frigates are useful again. I could see Vagyr Hyperspace Gates being useful now!

#17

I noticed this too. Does anyone know whether this was an intentional change made from HW2 Classic or if it’s just an unfixed issue?

It’s made capturing enemy vessels of different races a lot less useful as you can’t even pass them on to my teammates who could actually make use of them.

#18

So much butt hurt from HW1 player to HW 2 tactics.

Let me give you a insight to HW 2 tactics. It’s called bombers and shooting out engines then Attack moving above them

HW 1 races can build Bomber and frigates at the exact same time well HW 2 can not unless tons of production ships.

HW 1 actually gets more frigates then HW 2, making them OP and a mobile grav well, OP.

I went from Vaygr lord to taiidainy just to show every one up on the servers. Btw, HW 1 races OP in late game.

Learn to play before bitching.

#19

I do agree it would fix it, but its a lobotomy of the game, rather than a proper fix to the balance. It also won’t stop destroyers being equally stompy of everything beneath them unless you do the same there as well.

If the battlecruisers can’t move fast, then I would have thought the risks become a lot higher in using them, since where you deploy them becomes extremely important, faster strike craft or raiding frigates would be able to do resource and tech harassment on your home fleet while your massive battlecruisers are stuck in no mans land.

#20

A poster by the name of LeviathansWrath brought up a good point in the other BattleCruiser topic. Fire Control Towers on BattleCruisers!

A single BC with a Fire Control Tower won’t get any Fire Control Tower bonus for itself. This is balanced! Towers don’t give a bonus to the ships they are built on.

That said, THREE Vagyr BCs can share 3 Fire Control Towers amongst themselves = all 3 Vagyr BCs would get the 30% dam and accuracy boost (as long as they are in close formation). Hiigarian BattleCruisers could share 2 Fire Control Towers so all 3 Hiigarian BCs would get the 50% accuracy and 15%(?) damage boost.

Having 3 BCs is already OverPowered for the RU cost. The Fire Control Tower’s adding greatly to their power = makes them even more lopsided OverPowered!

Since Fire Control Towers can’t give a bonus to the BattleCruiser it is built on = The solution is still a default cap of 1!