Battlecruisers make Multiplayer boring!

Me and my Steam friends are getting bored with Homeworld multiplayer. We’ve talked about it and it basically boils down to this: The game is mostly about being first to get out the BCs. First team with a BC generally wins. A single BC has disproportionate strength for the RU cost and time.

So, in 2v2 or 3v3 (especially), the strategy revolves around 1 or 2 guys working to counter threats while the 3rd guy mostly rushes BCs. Once he gets the BC out, if the other side takes a few minutes longer = they lose! No other strategy seems to work = game is so freaken repetitive.

Commerce raiding, special HW1 ship abilities, Carrier groups, cloaked ambushes, laying minefields, massed frigates, EMP…nothing can counter against the disporpotiate strength of Battlecruisers (with an light escort of anti strikecraft). I suppose if the larger maps were 20x bigger, the relative strength of a BC would diminish…but they’re the size they are.

So the game is getting boring because of BCs…anybody else finding this to be so?

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There’s already a thread about this, just a few entries below yours.

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This game has survived on it’s mods, maybe try out a few rebalanced mods in multiplayer?

I have an better idea, balance that thing!

Can’t agree more, this game is restricted to one strategy, get a cruiser!

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Well, seriously. Play my mod. Get everyone else playing it and you won’t have that problem.

The mod is easy to install and launch, there are no extra stability problems, and it works fine online so long as both people have it.

It’d be nice if GBX just copied most/all of the mod so vanilla was better, but it’s not the case right now.

Mods are great because they are different form the vanilla game. I am sure GBX will arrive at their own balance that they are happy with for vanilla and I’m sure they will take features from mods but the thing with balance is that everyone has a different opinion on them. Best there is an official balance that isn’t just a copy of someone’s mod and then mods can go from there.

Perhaps its just a testament to my skill? But a BC doesn’t automatically mean the other team is going to win especially since I play Hig.

BUT, if I get one, it usually means terrible things for the other team.

If I see a player going for BC, I take appropriate steps and make sure they don’t get it. It’s a risky strategy.

In 1k starting resources on 1v1, yeah you don’t see BCs much because the first one costs something like 11000-12000 RU.
It’s not that it’s not worth that costs, it’s that spending all that tech makes you vulnerable since the enemy can put 5.5k into frigs and fighters/bombers that you spent on tech on your BC that’s just beginning to build.

It’s also cool to have that risk. If they weren’t strong, yeah no one would go with them, and you wouldn’t see a game changing BC come out and turn a 1v1 around. But they are far stronger than they need to be to be that sort of game changer.

But they are actually pretty worth their cost at 11000 RU if you can get them and keep it from being captured…
They’re 2.5x the hp and 5x the DPS of destroyers that are 2k vs their 4k. It’s only the tech cost that makes ONE of them somewhat balanced.

But if you can safely get that one out, well every BC you make after that is inarguably OP, since now they only cost 4k when they’re really worth that 11k compared to frigates.

HW1 definitely had a better balance between the ships. Even though a HC was only roughly as tanky and as much dps as the same cost of frigates, it was still worth getting because of how nicely it worked with support frigs. It could take more alpha that would oneshot frigs. Plus you could build it the same time as ions instead of making ion+assault.

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Personally I’d say all those tactics require larger maps; I tend to play 2v2 on a 3v3 or 4v4 map just to avoid SEEING the other side :smiley:
Mods especially - especially from different sci-fi series’ - really push up the need and joy for carrier groups etc. etc.; then the map size sucks it away imo.
But I agree, the game comes down to RU rush; mods that focus on fighter/carrier use change this beautifully I think (BSG and Freespace specifically).

I agree.

I favor Carrier Only battles right now. Not because the Battlecruisers are overpowered, but because everyone is always building them.

I would rather have whatever my opponent decides to build be a surprise. I want diversity. But that requires viable options as alternatives to the battlecruiser.

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Well… I have to disagree. BCs are only good if you support them with stuff, and if you deploy it smartly. The BC rush is only possible if the game is dull and there is not many battles-ship losses early on.
Also you need to learn how to counter it… that is it.

Adding that you need to have a good survailance to keep track of what’s going on, and be a little aggressive, to poke the enemy, and if you find a weakness, exploit, and get the upper hand, only with small ships.

I generally experienced, that getting the BC causes a long time of production capacity and RU investment, which can be used by the enemy for a small ship swarm, because with the BC building you can replace lost small ships quick enough. If you defeat the enemy small-ship fleet with good tactics, you can push on, to aim at resource bases.
A BC building is generally a bad thing in the beggining, and let’s down flexibility.
A good player will know that letting the enemy expand is bad, so attacks will be done with smaller ships, against resource ops, so that it will make the game more dynamic, and make the players think twice before starting to get a shipyard, etc.

I had a lot of games, where the BC was just a backup thing, and usually brought in to finish capital ships, once corvettes nailed everything else. Sometimes BC-s are not build at all, just Destroyers, but those with a massive rate, to keep up the momentum. a BC just slows everything down. You have basiacally a 4K RU lump of firepower taking ages to get from A to B, and if you jump, it cost money to build a module, cost money to jump, more money to upgrade armor, and if the enemy has any knowledge of what to do, they have a good GW defence, and things to counter it.

Also I had some games where a BC was headed for me, alone, and Laser corver just killed it… not to mention, I could easily go on with them, kill the rest of his stuff.

Hi there,

well the time to deploy the bc is way too fast. I prefered how it was in hw1. Gravwells and heavy cruisers took immense time to deploy and research and you were so much occupied with this that you didn’t have time to do so. That was mostly for the heavy cruiser. Your opponent then, or you, was already dead. Either way.

Also you couldn’t afford to go for gravwell cause it caused you to fall back in tech tree to your opponent == death. In hw1 there were many many viable strats. Either defensive or offensive. It was the reason why the MP community held so long in command. in RPS strategy like hw2, it was just dull. My friends in 2vs2 on crimson always performed swarm plus bc and they never lost a single match.

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Well, stop playing CB, and you’ll stop ‘always’ building BC and swam. That map is ideal for BC plays.

Play Sarum. Play KW. There, the ‘bc problem’ is insta-fixed.

Also standard res. multiplier helps to go for that centre asteroid field, and that keeps up dinamism.

Usually High resource multipliers cause games to be a bit “campy”.

Bombers make short work of BCs. 20-25 bombers will take down a BC in no time

Please elaborate, this statement is false depending on the race and how it can be applied to said race. Are you talking HW2 bombers or HW1 bombers? Cause I’m pretty sure 25 HW1 bombers are gonna die before even half the health of a BC is gone. If you are talking HW2 bombers, are you talking WINGs of fighters or strictly 4-5 wings of 5 each?

Me and my teammates are getting so bored with multiplayer. It is ALWAYS the same thing. Occupy enemies while rushing BCs. Rarely are games decided without BCs.

Again, I played a game trying to avoid using BCs…and we lost horribly. I had 14 bomber squadrons and corvettes…but they were eventually cut to pieces by 3 Hiig BCs. I tried laying mines, but not only are they almost useless against BCs, the Hiig BC can shoot the minelayers with its burst canons (while the Vaygr can’t). The HC gets destroyed by bombers, but the BCs will eventually take them out!!!

Anyway, as it is, BCs trump all (except other BCs)! Even salvage corvettes get mangled by point defenses when the BCs are close to each other.

This game is so repetitive compared to HW1…I think I’m going to stop playing for a while. Maybe it’ll be fun again next week.

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I think it depends on the map, not that we have too many to choose from yet.

It is easy to stop people getting BC’s on certain maps like Sarum, do you play Crimson Bond alot? Also, if you are playing against a team that is communicating, lets say through teamspeak, and scouting then you would be more hard pressed.

Considering you are probably playing with friends and assuming you do the same thing over and over again then I can imagine it gets boring. Not everyone you play against is going to be an experienced player so rushing to BC’s will surely win you the game.

I played against you not too long ago and I had two newbs on my team. All of you went straight BC, so there was really no chance. Were those teammates your friends?

Hi Omni!

Yeah, they were friends. Most of the time I play with friends. We’ve been ‘training’ a couple of new guys as well.

Also, we often use TeamSpeak. The in game chat system is SOOOO limited!!!

When I try playing solo I often get paired up with new guys…and then face teams of friends who use TS = it hurts!

As for getting bored, sometimes we try to play without BCs…we can do it versus all players except Hiigarian (HCs are weak versus strikecraft/corvs and the Vagyr BC can be flanked, negating the Trinity Gun), but the Hiig BC is so freaken good = it is VERY hard to counter without BCs of our own.

I agree with others that map choice can be a large factor.

A BC rusher is extremely vulnerable in the wallet though. Ignore trying to slap off the research module or shipyard cap ship module… kill collectors.

A player cannot build a BC they cannot afford.

A BC rush that is interrupted to counter collector attacks is no longer a BC rush.

A plat wall from a forward carrier can trundle over in plenty of time to cause disruption to a finely honed timing. That takes very little time to construct and send.

HW1 cloak/gravwell combo(with hw2 sensor distort) off-axis with enemy production inside well = ship in a bottle.

From what I have read, HW2 BCs may be addressed in regards to research/production time, to allow more possible counters to be fielded.

We’re not done yet, and tactics will change time and time again as balance patches come around.