Battleplan 52: 7/6/17


(Braveheart to the Graveyard) #41

Well, your first part comes off as satirical, at least the first time I read it. You’re harping on them for a small somewhat vague technical error, then saying it’s a straight up lie, as if they’re directly lying to you in some harmful or deceitful fashion. I’ll try and connect the dots, at least my interpretation of what they’re saying. Boldur uses Axe Toss while he’s ulted, he doesn’t actually have to aim it that much because of its explosion radius. But the full damage is dealt and the bleed comes through too. This nerf is trying to make Boldurs a bit more inclined to actually try and hit their targets because they can’t just rely on AoE bleed as much.

Thanks for taking away my Tank Boldur, turning him into an Assassin, and then now getting rid of that too.

This was the part I thought was especially satirical. You actually think Boldur can’t tank anymore? I guess the offhand shield (that can go up to 2000 in hitpoints), high base max health, high health regen, typical Tank dash skill, damage reduction after activating Rage… means nothing. Bruh.

That’s not necessarily a good thing but it’s not a bad thing either. If you’re hinting at the latter, well, god forbid they have balancing changes. And do you remember how chaotic release Battleborn was? How infuriatingly terrible the balance was? In most cases the changes of character role been good, in some, bad, like with ISIC. (Blaine and Hellyeah, if you’re reading this, let’s not open up discussion on ISIC’s role, k? Because we know that will never end.)


(Jennerit Supremacist) #42

Hellyeah has been banned from the forums. Like 5 times now.

And Boldur was 10x the tank he is now so I kinda get what he’s saying. I remember old Boldur when I got solo ulted by Deande and hit by a prenerf Dreadwind all while standing in a minion wave and only lost half my health.

For as hard as it is to kill a good Boldur now, he was nearly immortal back then.


(Is this thing on?) #43

You don’t appear to be able to do the “Micro Macro Mist Me” challenge in Bots Battle, because it seems like it’s still bugged. But even if it wasn’t bugged, getting three enemy BB stunned within the new shorter sublimate time just isn’t going to happen - you almost never see three of the AI Bots close enough together to do that. Paging @Jythri - can you please take a look at this? Thanks!


(Berg's Kippermuffin) #44

Why not take the same route as Kid Ultra? He could stun an entire team and wave of minions with one Bolas. And then that was changed to only stunning the first enemy he hit. That was fair. But when fixing that issue with Kelvin you reduced the length of Sublimate. Essentially making it no longer an escape skill as
Master_Oddjob points out

The three seconds helped him stun before escaping, it was essential to getting away. If you made it so he could only stun one person, that would still allow him to escape as long as he can stun the enemy that is after him.

And as for the Lore Mission: Micro Macro Mist Me. Just switch that to stunning 10 battleborn in one game 10 times. In all honesty stunning three battleborn at once with 3 seconds isn’t that hard since a lot of players seem to stick together, especially at that horrible choke point on Overgrowth right before that first sentry. All it takes is patience to get this lore. And since a lot of Lore was already made easier cough Kill X amount of X cough, this wouldn’t be such a bad thing or would make it too easy.


#45

3v3 Meltdown is terribad. Elite bots on elite bots on elite bots. There just isn’t enough firepower in a 3 man team to deal with spamming elites.

[quote=“khimerakiller, post:37, topic:1563627”]
Thanks for taking away my Tank Boldur, turning him into an Assassin, and then now getting rid of that too.[/quote]

Sorry your Boldur isn’t as grossly overpowered as he was. He’s still the best tank in the game.


(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #46

And then 4 months later in the case of Orendi.

And trust me, there are plenty more. I’m just not going to spend hours of my life combing the forums to bring both parts together.

You should know from my thread, and all my rants, that it just isn’t the same. You can still be “tanky”, but no where near as “tanky” as you were before. It’s all relative. [Insert bad analogy here]

If you can’t see Battleborn has been dumbed down and made less intense, then I don’t know what to tell you. Balance is good, and somethings needed it (like ISIC’s primary slow), but completely changing a game is not balance. It went from watching an NFL game, to watching a Pop Warner game.

You could keep the intensity, while achieving the balance. They same way I attempt to do so in my thread. But they decided to forgo the intensity in their seemingly blind pursuit of the balance.


(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #47

What an impressive statement. Do tell me, who else in this game do you consider to be a “Tank”? And while you’re at it, feel free to tell me why he was “as grossly overpowered as he was”.


(Jennerit Supremacist) #48

Not true. In the brief time when 3v3 was fairly active, @Nemosis327, @vagrantsun and myself wound up against @odiferous_hermit, TheMechaPanda and SilverNightHawk in a game of Meltdown. If you’re unfamiliar with the ps4 community just trust me when I say that means it’s going to be a damn fine game. The comps were us: Rath, Deande, Toby vs them: Thorn, Calarius and Phoebe. With their wave clear being much stronger we opted for two builder loadouts whereas they had none. It was a close game but in the end we lost despite having the advantage of buildables. That game taught me that in 3v3 meltdown the most important thing is to have as many of the powerhouse wave clear characters as possible on your team. Someone that can take down a wave solo very quickly.

Offense characters that melt waves with ease like Toby, Caldarius, Thorn and anyone with a wave clear ult like Alani, Ambra or Phoebe are invaluable to the match and if you have two or more of them than big bots won’t be an issue.


(Vagrantsun) #49

Supercharge elite bots are significantly weaker than their 5v5 counterparts. I don’t have exact math on it, but I don’t doubt Blaine and I could find out by the end of the night.

I noticed mainly because stun mine plus rail fire normally does about a third of an elite’s health bar, and in SC it’s over half.


(The Red Bar Observer) #50

Still one of the all-time great WTF Battleborn quotes.


(Jennerit Supremacist) #51

Galilea and Shayne (if she’s built for it). Other than that you just have characters that are tanky (takes a lot to kill but their job isn’t to soak up all the team’s damage) no one else can fill the role of a tank without constant attention from another character.

Are we talking about Boldur before or after the October Update. Because I could answer both. It’s debatable as to which one version was more powerful but both were way too strong.


(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #52

There is always a best, and the two you mentioned are hybridized, so they rightfully lose some of that ability to soak up damage. But doesn’t mean he needed a nerf. Plus, I mainly wanted to see how j_kay would respond.

And I’m talking about the Boldur that had a +48 bleed ult’d Boldurdash. When he properly filled his role. Which is also when surviving a Deande ult was something an Orendi could do pretty easily.

And maybe I am misspoken when I say this, but go look at Paragon. What each character can achieve and how powerful the gear is, far exceeds that of Battleborn. Yet they both have a similar TTK, and I assume Paragon is about as balanced as Battleborn, if not more so.

But feel free to tell me how OP day 1 Boldur was.


(Benedict's Glorious Wingspan) #53

Benedict enters the thread.
Benedict sees no one commenting about Benedict.
Benedict is understandably upset and in no way overreacting with his tears RAGE that there’s a mode where you can only play as Benedict but no one is talking about Benedict.
Benedict decides to Benedict the ■■■■ out of this thread.








TRY IGNORIN’ THIS!!!


(Jennerit Supremacist) #54

I can kind of agree with this. But there is an issue with it. You are (intentional or not) implying that Boldur was a pure tank. Which if that were true than yes he by all means he should be damn near impossible to kill and I would be perfectly fine with that. But Boldur could do a lot more than tank. Even before the buffs to his damage he was a massive pain in the ass. His damage wasn’t amazing but with how durable he was he would just pin someone in a corner and whittle them down without any concern as to what was attacking him.

And when he got to level 10 his damage went from meh to god like. Pre nerf Axe mastery was in my opinion, the strongest helix in the game. And yes, I would easily rate it higher than Pillarstorm or Wakes of Devastation.

As far as tanking goes, since Boldur’s Axe Mastery was so strong and it synergized so well with his DR every Boldur stacked as much HP as possible. Boldur would be at 4000+ HP at end game. His passive DR would be a solid 50% and since this was also before the minion’s HP was buffed, maintaining Rage throughout most of a game was relatively easy. That means before you look at his 2000 HP shield, self healing, 225 point overshield, and regen Boldur would take 8,000 damage before dying. After you look at all of the other methods of staying alive I mentioned, Boldur was harder to kill than a sentry.

Which, I would be fine with if that’s all he could do. But that’s not the case. He still had too much kill power. He may not have been as much of a hybrid as the other tanks but he was definitely not a pure tank.

I don’t play Paragon and learning the actual balance of a game I know nothing about takes more time than simply looking up the information. As I won’t know what’s outdated or if I’m getting information from a credible source. (Example: I spoke with a new player in Draft a while ago and when I said to ban Kelvin he told me from the research he did Kelvin was trash. Far from true) So I can’t really go to that for a comparison.


(Skeksis Syl) #55

You make my day damn near every time you post man


(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #56

The closest to pure. I don’t play any other MOBAs, but I’ve watch video’s. And while that only gets you so far, tanks from games like LoL have stuff like stuns on their primary. Of which Braum seems to be one of their tank “poster children”.

So when I say “tank” I don’t mean purely absorbing damage, I mean filling the role of a MOBA “tank”, by the standards that genre sets.

Which is the only time I heard a reasonable Boldur complaint, and I think it was a worthy reward for playing one of the least glorified roles for 9 levels.

So from my understanding, you are more or less saying only level 10 Boldur was unbalanced?


(Jennerit Supremacist) #57

In my opinion, it was by far the biggest issue with him.

If I had to take Boldur pre October Update and take my own swing at balancing him, I would have changed his Level 10 axe and shield mastery helixes drastically, reduced his movement speed bonus (near constant 30% enhanced movement speed for free was bullshit considering what other characters had to do to get movement speed buffs that didn’t last nearly as long) and than reduce his attack speed on his quick melee. Because the fact that he can pin someone into a corner and increase his DPS by doing so can’t be intentional.

Other than that I would think he would be for the most part balanced. I would be more than happy to see Boldur be a dedicated tank and not the hyper mobile tank/assassin he is today. He is one of my most played characters to this day and most of my games with him were back when he was closer to being a pure tank.


(Pandora's Industrial Engineer) #58

That sounds a bit biased. You made a similar comment when they nerfed “Don’t Stop Running”.

Again, says the dude that backs the guy with the spin cancel. It’s basically the same thing. And quick melee has diminishing returns now.

Just sayin’. Don’t come after me… Bro


(The Red Bar Observer) #59

Doesn’t that make quick melee spam more dangerous, not less? It’s the knockback that has diminishing returns, not the damage, and it doesn’t take long before they’re not being bounced anymore and you can just beat on them.


(Braveheart to the Graveyard) #60

Wait. You quoted two different developer’s responses? Duh they’ll be a bit different. And did you think that it could be both reasons for the Orendi nerf at the same time?

Because Boldur’s tankiness was ridiculous? I don’t understand why you’re so anti-nerf.

There are SO many things wrong with this, I can’t even. Intensity, first of all, is subjective when it comes to Battleborn because there isn’t a scale for it. The game has not completely changed (technically, yes, it has because F2p, but that’s not our subject), but if it has, it’s certainly been for the better. Do you realize how broken everything was? Do you realize how un-fun the game was because of extremely overpowered characters? Or do you wish to revel in those days and abuse every bit of brokeness known in Battleborn, as I draw from

seemingly blind pursuit of balance

Yes, the “blind” pursuit that makes a game fair and fun and not completely out of order. That is just… absurd. To say that closing the power gap between characters is a removal of intensity, to say that nerfing and buffing those who need them is a removal of intensity, is to spit in the face of any player who wants a balanced game. The mindset you have is to buff everything, correct? Alter some things, but buff others, at the least. It would make the game too reliant on character helix perks and character skills rather than an individual player’s mental acuity and skill.