Battleplan #6: 6/16/16

Okay, then why is it bad with Kelvin? Why is a skill damage bonus bad since you say it’s just skill damage? The item boosts your skill damage then gives you health regen based on skill damage, that’s good synergy.

I try and make well thought out points that you completely ignore about the price difference between Common and Epic, and Epic and Legendary, and how they both gain another permanent effect from their former tier of gear with very similar costs.

And that Legendaries still have merit as they give stats and benefits that no other piece can give.

Why do these exclusive effects need to have absurdly high values or extremely easy conditions to activate them to be worth it?

You’re still gaining a third stat from a single gear slot when using a Legendary, and most of the time they’re bonuses that can only be acquired through Helix upgrades.

You say they buffed Ghalt then had to nerf him again because he became too strong, but say that buffs for characters are needed.

I try to make the point that nerfs to stronger characters are passive buffs to weaker characters, and that balancing takes time, and you completely ignore it.

That’s good, I meant that in a light-hearted way, so I’m glad it translated that way. :slight_smile:

You bring up a good point and supports what I said earlier – balance is tricky. Everyone will have an opinion how things should be done and that’s to be expected. All our team can do is take in the community’s feedback and then compare it to the data and make the best decision possible. Balance takes time, but we’re committed to getting there and we will.

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Did I say it was bad for him?? No. I said it’s only skill damage that activates your lifesteal. I use a really good Rare skill bonus for Benedict so I love skill bonus damage. Never meant that skill damage is useless. I still don’t see 40-60 hp on skill damage being worth it. I think Kelvin would benefit more from the Alamo 7 now that the leechsteel is nerfed. I say that because Kelvin is a tank and he’s on the front lines so he needs chomp kills and a good defensive gear set.

I didn’t completely ignore your breakdown. Give me time. We both post so many things at once that I forget what all gets said lol.

There are many Legendaries that still merit their cost. There is still gear that people consider OP. So there is an imbalance amongst the Legendaries themselves.

As far as price goes, I don’t care what the difference is between all of them. What i care about is how drastically different the 3rd abilities on Legendaries are compared to each other. You have many awesome Legendaries and for this example I will say firmly that I believe the leechsteel is worth 1250-1350 and the Alamo 7 is worth 1800. Or more. If they just increased the shard cost instead of hitting the Legendaries so hard then I wouldn’t complain. I’d be fine spending so many shards if the Legendary feels worth it.

Because they’re Legendary status and should feel so. If the 3rd stat is lackluster then I won’t even bother because that health on skill damage isn’t going to prevent me from taking out a Rath with Caldarius.

Again, im not completely ignoring you… please stop thinking so mighty of your opinions that I need to respond immediately or even to all or any of them. Im on my phone and have a child for God’s sake lol.

The reason for my opinion on the Ghalt issue is because they buffed him too much and didn’t buff others to his level so they then had to nerf him. If they had buffed everyone then that would be been awesome. So my opinion and comments of buffing characters is still correct, you merely misunderstood my example. Unfortunately, a proper balance level or “bar” in Battleborn is impossible. This is because there are so many characters with differing abilities, classes, and sub classes. Because of this you always have people saying nerf or buff or change such and such.

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Ah, but they didn’t say summer of 2016…

:wink:

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My guess is that it’s easier (And therefore quicker) to address some issues compared with others.

Also, @zenrage, and @orionwannabe, I do appreciate that you’ve managed, so far, to keep the discussion you’re having polite and cool-headed.

Please keep it that way. There’s nothing mods hate more than intelligent, passionate people falling out over the thing that brought then together. We all love games here.

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I understand and respect that. It makes sense.

But just because it’s an easier fix it should it be prioritized?

Yes they can work on multiple things at once but if you have 300 issues you can’t handle them at the same time with a staff of 50. Not saying those are exact numbers for Gearbox but it’s just the point I’m trying to make as far as prioritizing issues when there’s so many.

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As I understand things, Gearbox prioritise according to several variables (And I’m only going to use 2 in this example), like frequency (how many players are affected, how often) and severity (is it a visual glitch, or are Xboxes exploding?)

So global problems have high frequency, but their effects might be mild. Or a few players simply cannot get the game to run, which is severe, but low frequency. The stuff that’s frequent and severe will be highest priority

BUT

they also have to figure in how hard it’s going to be to fix, and what resources they devote to it. A very widespread, but mild issue might be really easy to fix, so they could improve the game in small ways for lots of people very quickly, without draining resources significantly, while still having the majority of the bugfix team hard crunching the tricky stuff. This is why some people perceive that Gearbox aren’t working on difficult stuff when they see ‘trivial’ stuff getting fixed. Quick results aren’t necessarily the most important ones, but the important ones tend to take longer, and if something can be fixed in a few hours by one coder, it won’t significantly affect a project that’s going to take weeks by a larger team or teams of coders, but might positively affect lots of players.

This is just what I think goes on, based on being on this forum for several years. I could be completely and utterly wrong.

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Completely logical.

This is where communication is key and trust.

Gearbox has been very communicative but for some things (like the t2 skins fiasco) people feel as though they were uncommunicative about it and that’s one reason why so many are upset.

I love this idea of a list or notes about what is being worked on. I’ve mentioned this multiple times but now it seems as though it may become a real thing. All the legalities of gaming, ownership like copyrights, false information, etc. is a lot more convoluted than it used to be. I can see why Gearbox would stay hush hush on some things and really they have no obligation to communicate with us. If it wasn’t for social media forums then there would be no reason to complain about communication.

Really their only obligation is to fix issues. However, since they’ve gone on record to be communicative with the community they’ve pulled themselves into an exponential responsibility.

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Just saw for the plasmite dear lord.
They broke the only item that would allow you to be on par with an assassin with shards.
But eh,when you look at the score,the balancing,the chars,it’s obvious that kills are favored,why did I try.

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Actually he did. He said this summer. This summer being 2016 since summer 2016 has not only yet to pass but yet to arrive.
Lol nice try though

Ha, ya got me

Lol I guess so. I look forward to our next war of the words!

I’m sure I’m probably gonna get attacked maybe for this but after looking to some of the changes I am happy they made some nerfs to the legendaries. Have friendly players that use some of the listed items and they use to laugh on how much of advantage it gave them… Or I should say… How much of an advantage it gave that specific character. I do believe many of the legendaries work better with specific characters. Sounds like people are upset because they don’t work for all characters? Or maybe they know & loved the advantage it gave that specific character they use? The nerfs just happened… I think it’s better to try the items first again instead of yelling “nerfed to oblivion”. I do know many of the listed legendaries indeed gave too much of an advantage and I’m happy they are nerfed.

I got the plasmite early and one of the first thing I said while laughing is "Oh dear this thing is broken"
But,3% is ridiculous,before I could reach 20k shards on a full game (so much you can’t really even use them) but now,I think it’s not even enough to refund itself. So you’re winning way more shard with an epic with the same stats (not sure if it’s possible though). Or you get several epics to balance it out,use shard gen (I already do on my others char) but you lose one more legendary to use in the pool.

It’s not the first time we complain about overnerf.

It’s not that they were nerfed. It’s how much they were nerfed.

For example leechsteel went from max (16%) 160 hp on a 1000 burst damage skill. Which is a lot of damage for one skill. Its best used on big skill attackers or large AOE. Now it maxes at 60 hp on a 1000 burst damage skill. Which is very little considering other gear options.

Instead of decreasing it to 100, which I find reasonable considering the condition of the effect, it was nerfed more than 50%. Max 4-6% lifesteal on skill damage.

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HI I’m back! It shouldn’t matter HOW MUCH SOMETHING GETS NERFED. It should only matter if things become balance from it. If something had a million lifesteal damage on hit and they nerfed it down to 150, for this particular game which is still a lot, then that’s over a 99.9% nerf and the item is still amazing. I mostly argue the thought process rather thanthe numbers here. I don’t have this item so I don’t know.
It may have been more than a 50% nerf, but maybe it was just that good compared to everything else? They didn’t like it being that way and they “fixed” it to how they want it.

So as someone who mains alani im seriously tired of all the complaints. I understand she wasnt balanced but the auto attack dmg reduc. Other than that i pretty much agree with it except im curious why the riptide got nerfed so much. Its not like that was a what was causing problems. Im glad miko’s getting a nerf cause just comparing healing alani has nothing on miko. But now alani’s health is getting nerfed again? I understand its not a lot but when toby, Benedict, rath, or orendi (to name the big ones) can kill alani in 5 seconds or less when she has to frontline is incredibly annoying, especially now that she’s weaker.

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I don’t agree with that being a good comparison but okay.

It does matter how much they nerfed it because it shows how “unbalanced” it was before. It shows that they tested this and

But it was arguably op to the community so they had to revisit it. That’s fine. Adjustments are meant to happen in these types of games.

We’re talking reasonable data and numbers, not 1 mil to 150. I understand what you tried to do but it’s irrelevant. If those numbers were correct then the gear around it would need to nerfed otherwise in your example it would not still be amazing.

Let me use the Ghalt example, over buffing in this case it does matter how much they buffed him because it misaligned the balance between him and other characters in his class. So since they over buffed him they then had to nerf him to a more reasonable amount on his skills and base damage.

So yes it does matter how much you nerf or buff something.

When you say things like this is why I stated the above. Instead maybe just say, 60 total health when someone has 1400 is not worth the item. It is similar to % but different.

Characters with good AoE damage could get too much regen from it before, such as characters with good wave clear.

A minion wave has 5-6 targets, not counting MK bots or thralls. Orendi as an example could do 500 damage to all targets. That’s 2500-3000 damage, so at 14% regen you could get 350-420 health back. Which is a lot, considering they wanted non healer self sustain maxing out at 7 HP/s.

At 5.6% regen you still get 140-168 health back which is still a great self heal considering it is not coming from a healer.

Battleborn is a team based game, and if you need heals, you should be getting them from either a support player or healing station.

If players could heal themselves for high amounts without supports in the heat of battle, there would be no point of having support players.

I know you feel these items should be super powerful, but you have to try to look at it from the perspective of how the game is meant to be played: a coordinated team effort with a team comp that synergizes well with each other, where your teammates are meant to make up for your characters short comings, not your gear.

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