Battleplan #6: Response

@Saboteur-6, @zenrage,
This is where I come to express my opinion.
If you don’t like it, don’t read it.
Move on.
If you think by marginalizing me you will make me stop, you are wrong.

However, if the best argument you can muster is to keep telling me I am wrong, you should reconsider.

For me the ongoing nerfing characters and legendaries dramatically reduces my enjoyment of the game on par with your reduction of enjoyment due to unbalancing before the nerfs.

I respect your right to protest for rebalancing. I don’t like the way GBX has done.

You may disagree with me but telling me to “calm down” is marginalizing.

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Talk about the game. Not each other. I strongly recommend that forum users read the forum rules.

Don’t make me post the cute animal pics.


And I’m expressing my opinion on your (and similar) opinions. Such is the nature of forums.
You’re mistaken if you think I’m inviting debate. I’m making an observation and supporting another posters comment to show that there are people who do NOT feel the way that you do.

Got it in one Zen. I sometimes use the PvE to gain Epics, maybe a Legendary gear item. But mostly, I use it as a laboratory. Testing out Helix choices and combinations of classes, gear and helix picks where no one’s enjoyment or detriment is on the line. I don’t expect everyone in PvE to crush it, especially in a PUG group. So i don’t bother trying to find that level of play there. That’s what the PvP is for.

As far as the nerfs…what game that has online play DOESN’T have a nerf session, especially early out? yes, certain things worked in the beta…with a few thousand players. Now the servers are live, there are tens if not HUNDREDS of thousands of players across multiple networks and servers. THIS WORK DIFFERERNTLY THAN THE BETA!!! The GB devs want a clear baseline of character performance to work FROM, rather than trying to slide everyone UP to a certain level first. Cause it’s a lot harder to hit the mark going UP in power with a lot of characters, than bringing DOWN a few.

Yeah, it just seems like most of the critics don’t understand the process of balancing in PvP games, and expected only tiny changes after launch.

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These very forums say something different.


That has zero votes.

Go to the actual thread, there’s a bug with linking it.

Trying to crunch the numbers on the legendaries is not easy. My brain hurts right now from just trying to figure out the Chronokey and Plasmite Transducer. But these are my opinions from trying to compare them to non-legendary gear based on hard(ish) numbers, which may be off.
The Chronokey is good. It was being abused by high offensive potential attackers to get ridiculous cooldown rates, we’re talking 6 or more times higher than any other piece of gear can offer with certain characters, way, waaaay over the cost increase comparatively. At its new value it is only usable by high-offensive characters, but they probably can still squeeze out 2 seconds of cooldown reduction, which for basic skills is very significant compared to standard gear. And I don’t really see it being brought down to far without breaking for these characters again. So maybe they could have gone with an 1800, but 2000 is perfectly fine. The only issue is that this legendary has a heal power secondary effect, which is no longer appreciable because supports can not use it at all.
The Plasmite Transducer is not good. At 3% it will end up benefiting tanks lategame, but because its secondary effect is so comparable to the increased shard cost you are nothing but behind until you make back your first 750 shards or so, which can a duration of over half a match. I’ve seen good tanks take damage in excess of 75000 and still benefit their team so it can put you 1500 shards ahead late game. But just depending, it could also put you ahead only 350 shards lategame. It’s just not consistent enough for such a steep opportunity cost.
I do want to say though, this means it would probably have been balanced at 5%, maybe even 4. And while the difference in effect is huge on those numbers because of how small they are; Being that small also means it is really easy to overshoot. This is not some dramatic nuclear nerf.

i had a lot to say until i read this part. i respect that you play this game for pve. nothing wrong with that. but you have to be willing to at least respect the fact that this game is primarily a pvp game. it has always been the main focus of the game. i really dont think it would be an easy task to allow the gear to perform differently in pve without also leaving it alone in pvp. that simply isnt an option if they want the game to be balanced and competitive in pvp.

as far as alani goes, she was severely outperforming in her role as a hybrid support. i still feel she needs a helix rework to be completely balanced in pvp, with her geyser and cooldown potential being major issues still.

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but i have grown to love and expect them

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I respect that the PVP community was demanding that Alani be nerfed. PVP felt she was too strong. I can’t find any forum posts regarding the legendaries but I didn’t look to hard so perhaps that was a problem for PVP as well.

I have been a developer, there are many ways to fix a problem. Somewhere there is a happy medium.

PVE makes up a portion of the game. Many of us only PVE. We want to be heard. That is all I am doing here.


I found this brilliant bit by

Its better written and more accurate than anything I have come up with.
Thanks @EdenSophia

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Clearly, what you don’t understand is the fact that many people bought the game mainly for PVE, and right now there is less and less interest in playing it. The marketing (the few there was) was centered on the variety of modes with solo pve, co-op pve, pvp…
Right now, if you want to play PVE you will get poor “legendary” rewards that 40 out of 50 is garbage, 6 just had been nerfed to oblivion, and the 4 others are deactivated for “investigation” (aka “we will nerf this to make it useless but we still don’t know how”).
And if you want to play PVP, well you have to reeeeeeeeaaaaallly love waiting, looking to a static screen, or have some papers to do while waiting to find other players.
In his actual state, none of these game modes are enjoyable for anyone, not because they are not well design (they actually are greatly done) but because of the idiotic policy of K and Gearbox, releasing a game with no advertising, at the same time as one of the biggest, most awaited game of the last years, and making it less and less fun with time.


Right. That’s enough.


Talking about the game: Why don’t we have this little buddy playable already???

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Oh my God. That is so adorable. I think you’re actually encouraging me to talk about other users now. :smiley:

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Instead of getting angry and creating a post that invites hostility, how about suggesting ways in which the devs can buff some of the weaker legendaries? The devs are more likely to listen to people asking for buffs rather than people complaining that the game doesn’t cater to them.

The devs are already planning buffs to some of the weaker characters, so it is entirely possible they may be doing the same for gear. Nerfs usually matter more than buffs as strong gear/characters completely warps the game around them while weak gear/characters only affects the person using them.

Don’t take this in a condescending way, but try to patient with them. You mentioned how angry you were, so, if you need to, you can take a break from the game for a little while. Go play Overwatch if that makes you happier. After a month or two you can come back and decide if you still like Battleborn.

Me, personally, (a level 100 with 300-ish hours) am ecstatic about the battle plan. Alani was too strong and they brought her down a notch. She’s still a/b+ tier just not god mode. In PVP some legendaries were a real problem. I’d imagine the same goes for PVE. Some of those legendaries were truly game breaking and some still are. I would much rather some things be under powered than overpowered so skill can shine through in PVP.

GBX has to strive for balance. It might not be possible to get it 100% balanced but they have to try. That is how multiplayer games work. This is the same issue Destiny had. They’d nerf things for PVP and it would effect PVE. It sounds like some of these legendaries would make PVE extremely easy as well though, so maybe that was their intention.

The micro transactions are horribly timed. Not sure what they were thinking about that.

I love this game (mostly PVP player) and will continue to play. In terms of nerfing etc. I am sometimes upset with what GBX does, but often I have to defer to their judgment. I have no where near the data they do.

Edit: the PVP map changes are very welcomed as well!


My platform, Xbox One, doesn’t have long wait times, and seems to be growing as I’m constantly seeing new, lower level players. I only have to wait a couple minutes max to find a game, regardless of the game mode.

I don’t know what platform you’re on but I heard PC had a lot of legitimate issues, so that can drive a lot of players a way.

Regardless of how the game is marketed though, and I do agree it was marketed terribly with not enough publicity with a terrible release timing due to Overwatch, tons of multiplayer focused games are marketed with campaign and competitve multiplayer, it doesn’t change the fact that most long term players are there for the PvP, and not the PvE.

And I completely understand that many people may have bought the game for the PvE, but that also doesn’t change that this game is geared toward PvP, and PvP requires proper balancing.

As you say, out of however many Legendary items there are, only a small portion truly stood out as ridiculously good pieces.

So which scenario is more likely: they meant for all of them to be that ridiculously good, or they underestimated how good these select few would be in comparison and are now trying to bring them in line with the rest of the Legendary items so people will take a second look at those ones as well?

And really don’t understand how any item can be terrible. I agree none of them are at the par of the Borderlands Legendary equivalent gear, but this is a different game and their vision for gear isn’t meant to make you exponentially more powerful. It’s there to accentuate your character’s strengths or to aid their short comings.

If you character has a slow attack speed, supplement it with an attack speed item, if your character has a Helix upgrade that causes your shields to begin recharging, use a shield regen per second item to make it regen as much as possible before you get hit and it stops regenerating, etc.

The cost bump from Common to Epic is 630 shards, and that adds a permanent secondary effect. I know there are two other tiers of gear between that, but the important bit of information is that it’s when it finally gives a permanent effect.

The shard bump between Epic and Legendary is 750, and that adds another permanent tertiary effect. That cost is very comparable to the Common to Epic gap for another permanent effect.

The type of tertiary effect is generally one you can only get through Helix upgrades or equivalent to a primary stat, and that’s worth the extra 120 shard difference between the 630 and 750 shard gaps.

They are trying to make the tertiary effect values comaparable to the values given by secondary effects, as they have comparable costs to attain.

Even at smaller values, or with harder to achieve conditions, the benefit of using Legendary gear is that you get a third stat bonus from one slot of gear.

Without Legendaries you can only have 6 bonus stats, with them you can have up to 9. That’s still good regardless of their values.

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