And do you know the difference between those two? The Archive has a lower score requirement to get gold.
Yeah, another Renegade score req. complain, sue me.
I don’t know about everyone else, but I’m pretty sure Bosses are the only reliable source of bonus score (besides hunting large chests), so making the Renegade’s score requirement as high as it is seems a little strange to me. Even in 5 man coop, I can’t seem to breech the score requirement. In solo, I barely even manage to get a silver rating.
I can’t really think of anything besides lowering the actual requirement. It doesn’t even have to be by that much, just enough that you can have at least a small margin of error. From what I’ve seen, you have to be very specific and precise on what you need to do to get gold on The Renegade, whereas I could be totally non-specific and somewhat loose for any other mission and at least get a high scoring silver as long as I get enough bonus score.
So unless Gearbox decides to add a miniboss at the end of waves like the Saboteur, I’d like it that score requirement got lowered a little bit.
These are just my thoughts however, so take it how you will.
Oh I know what you mean. Plus it’d add variety. And a chance at that legendary. And touche… I think I’m probably the only one who liked the heliophage… As Atticus with a Miko, it’s a stomping ground. I’m talking release era not-super-strong Atticus.
I actually really liked the Heliophage at first too - Boss Rushes are fun!
But it didn’t take long for me to start hating it. Got knocked off the map one too many times. I don’t like the kind of difficulty it adds. Instakills always feel cheap, especially in a game where I expect everything to have a high TTK.
Bosses and chests aren’t the only source of additional points in a mission. Quick kill bonuses are a major boon (and the major difference between a “max score” run and a simple gold run). The quick kill bonuses are short (check here), but if you can kill an enemy fast enough, you get 25% additional score, which adds up over time, especially on Renegade when you’ve got a crapton of enemies.
Not sure about everyone else, but I’ve never really had a problem getting gold on Renegade (nor have any of the people I run with regularly). I can manage a gold Renegade with randoms, even.
I doubt the devs just arbitrarily assigned the score requirements for each mission. They probably had a formula of some kind and probably datamined or used some analytics to compare their assumptions to player performance. If enough players were having a problem getting a given rank on a given mission, they would likely change it (and know where to change it, as well).
If any mission has a rank requirement that’s off, it’s Helio Adv. I have, quite literally, never gotten anything except for gold on Helio Adv. Even for a 5 person run that had no lives remaining halfway through the boss rush. From what I can tell, the only way to not get gold on Helio Adv is to fail it (I guess if you skip absolutely everything that can be skipped, you could get less, but skipping stuff is boring).
What’s weird is that the Thrall Enforcer at the first defense point in Renegade actually has a name. He’s not some generic Thrall Enforcer; he’s got a unique name, which always felt to me like they intended there to be an actual mini-boss there.
The “something” being swarmers is fine by me since it’s a crapload of swarmers (hence the name), and they don’t know exactly what it is when they’re moving around underground.
As to the whole issue of there being a loot disparity, I agree wholeheartedly. Algorithm is a veritable cornucopia of loot: 4 bosses, 2 of which double drop (and are the only ones I’ve ever actually seen double drop). Sentinel and Saboteur are pretty good, too, with their 3 bosses each.
Archive, Renegade, and Heliophage only having a single loot boss just feels really wrong, especially since it’s obvious that certain points are pretty obviously designed to be mini-boss tier objectives. For Heliophage, there’s literally a boss rush, and, on Renegade, each defense point has a bigger, tougher thrall with 1-2 buddies that spawns at the end of each defense which screams mini-boss. The minion escort part of Archive is an obvious example of a event mini-boss (just make Chronicle do a lootsplosion whenever the minion objective completes; I doubt that the engine require kills in order to trigger a lootsplosion).
Of course, if they gave them legendaries, they’d need to either create them or get them from somewhere. Creating them just exacerbates the problem of loot glut, such that, in all likelihood, we’ll end up with an even larger number useless legendaries (e.g. collector loot) and end up with the same number of really good legendaries (e.g. useful loot). Getting them from somewhere else means that we’re getting rid of the unique method of gear acquisition for each legendary. Personally, I’m fine with that, especially since there’s a whole massive class of legendaries that are obscenely annoying to get your hands on (loot pack legendaries).
There are 34 loot pack legendaries, a huge number of which no one ever mentions because almost no one has them. And, if you want them, it’s going to take forever because the chance of a loot pack dropping the legendary you want is abysmally low and each loot pack has numerous legendaries that you can get from them (this varies wildly, too; Eldrid packs have 3, Jennerit have 4, LLC have 10, UPR have 9, and Rogue packs have 8).
Since it would take 17 mini-bosses (if you include bosses, they would count as 2 mini-bosses for loot purposes) to actually give all of those loot pack legendaries through PvE sources. If we made it so that each mission has 4 total lootsplosions like Algorithm (and 6 total for Heliophage), we’d end up with 17 additional mini-boss lootsplosions.
[details=Points to give lootsplosions]Void’s Edge gets a lootsplosion (from the Sentry) when he finishes hacking the door and when he stops moving at the end and the mission is waiting for you to stand on the objectives
Renegade gives you a lootsplosion when you complete each defense point (from the Enforcer) and when you finish clearing the final defense point (comes out of Caldarius)
Archive gives you a lootsplosion (from Chronicle) when you get Chronicle to the spot he begins waiting for minions, when you finish getting him the minions, and when he starts moving after going back through the big door, when there’s a truly massive spawn of thralls)
Sentinel gets one for killing the brute anchor at the end of the elevator (from the floor, 'vator doesn’t move until 5 seconds after the lootsplosion to prevent weird elevator clipping)
Experiment gets one (from the completed defense node) after the power station and after the broadcast station defenses
I can see 2 places to give a lootsplosion for Saboteur: either when opening the door before the 2nd defense point (which requires you break the 2 big shards) or when opening the door before the final defense point (which requires you do the 2 paths, activate the objective, and then clear out of bunch of enemies)
Heliophage is special (and takes about 50% longer, at a minimum) and gets new ones to make 6 total: one from finishing each path to unlock the Heliophage and one when you kill the final boss killed for each boss rush wave (doesn’t matter on Normal because there’s just 1, but it does on Advanced)
If we make all of the loot pack legendaries also available through PvE content, then, to make things not so unfair to PvPers (and to get them to stop complaining about PvE exclusive legendaries being “required” for PvP), you then make it so that all legendaries can be acquired through the loot packs, which has the nice side effect of making all of the loot packs have a roughly equal number of legendaries (Eldrid would have 16 but all of the others would have 17).
The math fits perfectly. If that’s not kismet, I’m not sure what is (it could very easily have been the initial design intent, as well; @JoeKGBX@Jythri, either of you able to comment on or confirm that?).
This will also cost you a lot of credits/loot packs because many challenges give you exactly what you need to complete the challenge, though only if you let the enemies spawn rather than destroying the anchor immediately.
[quote=“vorox1027, post:14, topic:1544448, full:true”]The pickups that can pretty much account for a large portion of your score?
Except that you’d be surprised how little they actually do account for it. If you kill absolutely everything and get quick kill bonuses on all of them, you can get a great score even if you keep dying. The amount and speed of kills is just as important as the little yellow and blue balls you pick up.
Your primary reason for wanting a lower cap on the score requirement was essentially “I can’t get enough points”, acting as if the only way to increase your score is to get more bonus points from bosses (btw, bosses give a crapton of xp as well, so it’s not just the bonus points they drop that give a lot). You can easily crank your score up by taking things from full hp/shield to dead as quickly as possible (quick kill timer starts from the first time they take damage, so it’s actually bad to take pot shots at enemies that are far away to slowly whittle them down, if you’re going for more points; walk up close and ensure that you can get those crits to take them out almost instantly), which is probably what the devs are implying that you should do to get gold on Renegade (since I’m pretty sure the only mission with more enemies is Heliophage).
In game files this mission is called “Captains”. I suppose there had to be a thrall captain boss after each defence task, but something changed later…
Easily? You gotta be kidding))
Threads about gold on the Renegade appear from the start of the game. This is the hardest mission to get gold on. Some people do get gold pretty often, but it doesn’t mean it’s equally easy for everyone.
The whole scoring system is flawed, it’s counter-intuitive and unnatural. It favours those heroes with high solo target damage and punishes everyone else - for no apparent reason! For example, if you have 4 evolved thralls in front of you and you kill them all one by one in 2 seconds per each one, you get all quick kill bonus score while spending 8 seconds for the fight. If you drop an aoe and they die all at once in 4 second, you’d get much less score from them while actually you were twice more effective.
I got gold there solo on both difficulties with Marquis. But it doesn’t mean I’ll get gold with any other hero, part of the roster just don’t fit with this odd scoring system.
Ah, and what’s more. Complaints about gold on the Renegade appear over and over from the launch, and they did what? They rose the gold threshold! Yes, they did just that. There were complaints about gold in the Archive and they quickly responded with lowering the bar so low it’s pretty impossible to not get gold. Despite the Archive has an opportunity to farm scores as long as you need and the Renegade has not.
Their “logic” blows my mind. That’s why I’m so sarcastic when someone mentions GBX have their data… They indeed have, but it doesn’t seem to work as it should.
The inconsistency of difficulty to get gold medal among all missions is huge and has zero reasons behind it.
People report to have 50 runs without gold. It absolutely shouldn’t be this way, it’s a freaking Normal difficulty, come on!
The more I think about it the more I’m certain that there should be bosses instead of just “bigger mobs with names”. At first I thought GBX can’t do this until they think out legendaries corresponded with these two bosses, but then I recalled Heliofage mid bosses do drop lots of bonus scores but don’t have items in loot. With those additional bonus score drops the gold medal won’t be such a problem anymore.
Maybe it was the intended design but then they found out bosses without item drop confuse players and degraded them to mobs. And forgot to lower the gold medal threshold accordingly.
Yep, I totally believe they are able to forget such significant details. It took them three (!) months to find out Kleese’s HP was almost two times less than it was supposed to be.