Big zane problems that are hardly ever mentioned

So im always missing some of the issues that i have with how the character is designed when i read this forum.

He can do very specific things very well currently - e.g. slidespeed boss 1 shots with amp shields.

But he has a few huge problems and ill try to point out some of the less talked about so hopefully someone from GB will read this and relate it to someone who cares.

The current state of the character makes him always want to: Have 2 action skills active - 1 of them being barrier + having 2 kill skills active + going fast + full shields. Keep that in mind for the following.
1 - He can not reliably proc ASE annointments.
This is mostly because all of his Action skills have a duration. This makes him MUCH MUCH worse at proccing ASE than all other VHs. His only useful/competetive annointment right now is 120% damage increase on clone swap and this is a lot worse than Amaras 250%+ damage or Flakks 100% on rakk.
This means he needs an insanely rare ultra specific annointment on the best guns in the game - making it VERY unlikely to get one of these while all the other VHs can be much more effective with general ASE.

Even worse Zane has a specific skill that basically reads: “action skill duration is basically endless unless you make a mistake” (freeze resets duration at full shields/health).

The only way for zane to somewhat reliably proc ASE is by - call clone - immediately explode clone. This is unfortunately not a great solution but it is the only solution.
The animation for exploding the clone in particular is way too long and during that animation you cant reload/throw grenades / do anything but shoot. It also uses 1 finger for like 2 seconds which is fairly annoying - not unsolvable but annoying for sure.

If you have good guns with >exactly< damage on clone swap annointment its not that bad. but yea…
2 - His FFYL is terrible.
If youre going down and nobody is there to help you - YOURE GOING DOWN!
This is because FFYL entirely removes everything related to zanes “going fast” damage increase which is fundamental to the character being viable.
3 - His skills have antisynergy.
There are a lot of these and ill just mention a few that i find relevant.

One of his capstones activates kill skills on action skill activation but like i said at the start^ everything else is laid out to have action skills with longer duration/endless - you cant really use them repeatedly to reliably be at 2 stacks kill skills - this is specifically a problem in multiplayer but even outside it makes the capstone look kinda silly.

His +10% damage barrier augment doesnt work for himself when barrier is picked up. Why?

He always wants to have as much shield as possible based on his green tree. But one of his coms increases his damage based on how empty his shield is + breaks shield on action skill. In addition there are shields that gives Movementspeed on empty - cant use those either.
4 - He does not do well with the elemental projector artifact.
This is the single best artifact in the game on basically everyone. Zanes skill that resets his action skills requires him to be at full shields/hp so dotting self makes this basically unusable - even if the damage is basically irrelevant.
Zane has a skill that halves dot duration.
Zane really wants snowdrift artifacts - especially for bosses where elemental projector is the most important. So in boss fights - 2 top tier relics compete for his slot.
Honorable mentions:
He has the single worst class mod in the game - giving a >random< status effect on a target after freezing them.
Its a useless effect that has a fairly high cost requirement. wow. Not sure if it even works at all on targets like bosses that technically cant be frozen. Not touching that thing ever.

PS: If someone can tell me how i can force the forum to respect empty lines created by hitting enter rather than capping empty lines at 1 max - id love to make the paragraphs a bit less clumped.

  1. use dopplebanger, he’s tied with Amara for 2nd best at activating ASE after Fl4k who can do it basically whenever because of how low the CD of R4kk Attack is and how easy it is to reset the CD.

  2. His FFYL is terrible. Use Old-U whenever possible.

  3. Seeing Red and CCC have anti-synergy, everything else doesn’t really.

  4. He does the same as everyone else with EP.

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I have never got that to work, ever.

We talk about this a lot here.

Also talked about a lot.

Something brought up often too but I’ve argued against this point several times. This is part of what gives him diversity, it’s like you think about Zane in mindset of just 1 build. I actually made an ASE build with infiltrator and drone/barrier skills without extending durations set up a nice cadence of casting for me.

Again he has more then one way to build. I’ve seen people use EP to 1 mag Agonizer on M4 (cutsman) which without EP is not possible.



You have to do it quickly and have your clone stay alive.

If you have Boom Enhance/use Transformer shield it’s unlikely your clone will die often anymore.

It’s also not super responsive (it takes like 1-1.5 seconds for it to actually respond to your input in my experience) but it works.

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Clone rezz is good when u can get it but its pretty deep in a tree that quite frankly doesnt offer much after the first few levels - same with the clone explode. Youre losing dps somewhere else just to get there.

The main problem with doppelbanger is how long it takes to blow it up - how clunky it is. If you think its fine that is okay. I really disagree there tho.

It wouldn’t be that bad if the DoT was stronger.

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Yeah done some testing and it seems to be a pretty fixed amount. In the 100’s, pretty sad and I can’t really find a way to boost it.

I agree that - under certain scenarios elemental projector absolutely is best in slot.

I was trying to make the point that it competes with another very good option for zane while for the others EP is basically always best in slot for bosses.

Also its not really reasonable to respec everytime just to play around one or the other. While others just slap on EP for bosses and are good to go.

50% cryo annoint is arguably better than clone swap 130%.

Its multiplicative - so it is closer in damage than #’s suggest.

There are also no conditions except for having drone out.

Swapping brings with it looking in some random direction and then a timer on top of it.


Please let me post forum in a manner that is reasonable and not fking annoying as hell - thank you very much this post is very different and quoting still doesnt use the reply function.

How does this post not show reply - please forum please do the thing…

Is what youre saying that the damage formula for the actual annointments are different for every annointment?


I just assumed they are the same but that would explain why the numbers are so extremely screwed.

If it says bonus damage, that means it calculates the damage first and then gives 50% of that. You can tell bc it gives separate damage numbers when you shoot enemy.

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Id love to check it now but thanks to the EPIC store - no sarcasm intended - im downloading the patch at 2mb/s and its like 11pm -.- .

if one is additive and one is multiplicative it makes the whole thing a lot more mathy for sure.

Also if its still cryo damage then thats not helping the drone.

Thanks for pointing that out either way!

You actually have to go all the way down first. It doesn’t activate until you’re fully in FFYL.

so about a second to a second and a half, depending on how my knees are feeling that day

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It is working fine since last patch always resopnsive and fast but that is no excuse for zanes ffyl state for m4

As to anti synergies… That is called having stylistical choice of play and zane can keep his 130% for a very long time there already is ton of ase stuff from shield and nade i am happy to have power in my as duration instead of waiting for it to end. Rakk and grasp are stupid good in that regard it is just another design flaw one of gajilions numbers are simply too high

You’ve pointed most of the things I hate about Zane. I personally regret picking him up.

Also this… Use items with bonus element damage. It’s multiplicative, aka Damage Type C. All bonuses to multiplicative come AFTER every other single base damage increase. This also applies to crit damage, but I don’t think they interact so well. With Zane, you’re not stacking crit damage on top of itself in multiplicative and base crit damage together, so I don’t think it matters so much.

This has been a thing since BL1, btw. In BL2 this was how Zero was just ungodly broken against some bosses in rushdown. Jakobs weapons always secretly have a 15% multiplicative crit damage bonus. Asides from maybe the Headsplosion. I think that has a 30% base on both, and a reduction of 20% multiplicative, since it’s a Cobra. All Jakobs legendaries I think have 30%. Torgue is the opposite, reduced crit damage for increased base damage. Neither really matters on Zane.

re ase annointments - dont use ccc, put less points into the clones survivability and use the perk that makes enemies target the clone after swap = more time for ase annointments being up?

Good solution but…
In my personal experience, the perk simply doesnt work reliably.
Im not sure why - might be range limited, might have other limitations.

But yea if enemies would actually reliably focus down the clone after spawning it that would solve the problem - might be worth looking into.

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i generally spawn clone, run into battle applying damage then when it gets hairy do a swap then shoot from mid to long range so my clone doesnt normally last long by that point lol