BL3 M2.0, the good, the bad, and the unbalanced

Been playing since Pre-Order and release and BL3 has been one heck of a roller-coaster ride. It has had ups, downs, and accelerated sideways turns. I typically touch on some topics in a more direct approach but I feel like an analysis of the overall picture is more inline for a good and hopeful eventual direction.

The release of Mayhem brought us some good things, some bad things, and a whole world full of unbalance after the devs worked so hard to get endgame balance done.

10 levels of Mayhem is overkill, seriously. It has been posted in other posts, we really dont need this much “Mayhem”.

A perfect balance would have been up to Mayhem 5. Go back to Mayehm 1.0, add the new Mayhem 2.0 modifiers and change outlook like this:

M1: Easy
M2: Easy / Medium
M3: Easy / Medium / Hard
M4: Easy / Medium / Hard / Very Hard
M5: Medium / Hard / Very Hard / Hardcore (2x projectile or Rogue-Lite)

Let us pick our modifiers as M5 Hardcore is enough to make it a challenge with either not dying or take extra damage.

Keep the M4 exclusive weapons and let them drop from M4 and M5. If we want to farm lite, we can pop on M4, for those of us who want a challenge or 100% anoint drop rate can go up to M5.

Anointed drop rates are as followed:

M1: 10% loot anointed
M2: 30% loot anointed
M3: 50% loot anointed
M4: 70% loot anointed
M5: 100% loot anointed

DO NOT SCALE WEAPONS TO MAYHEM LEVELS!!!

Like seriously, all you do is make the higher Mayhem levels easier anyway. You also separate people who do not wish to play higher Mayhems with you and you can’t even join their game without killing everything. Worst decision ever.

Added by popular request as well:
Enable/Disable Modifiers :Forfeiting the Modifiers in lieu of more HP and increased spawn for a challenging vanilla experience.

Scale all weapons back to original level 57 form and adjust the new Mayhem set of HP on mobs to pre M2.0 and add additional HP to M5.

This is one of the only things I can see saving the balance we had for action skills, weapons, fun, and challenge.

Just a simple poll to see who else feels the same:

  • Yes
  • No

0 voters

5 Likes

i would support it over current system but

still too much mayhem levels and too much modifiers. i do not need either boosts or hidnerances, just let enemies have enough hit points so that they can execute their attacks and strategies coded for a.i.

research has proved long ago that people perceive a.i better and smarter as long as they have enough health to stick around thus creating many variations of the way fights can go.

make mayhem a mayhem. make skags spawn on athenas make annointed spawn on metroplex make heavies spawn in cov camps, let them take on both players and each other, that is mayhem.

death… is not mayhem -75% crit or whatever is not mayhem.

#freeyourselffrommayhem devs

9 Likes

The M1 modifiers were not much of a hindrance and were hardly frowned upon (save 2x proj) like the new modifiers, hence why I think they should just add them and let us choose.

There could possibly be a work around by forfeiting the Modifiers in lieu of more HP and increased spawn for a challenging vanilla experience?

I’m down homie beats op levels with a twist. Throw in a option for no modifiers as a select option and I’m sold

1 Like

Wasn’t this a possibility before mayhem 2.0, in a way? There were people out there doing true takedown and more or less breezing through mayhem 4, thanks to top-tier weapons and anointments. Those guys in a buddy’s low-difficulty session were gonna stomp just the same.
I suppose now it’s “easier” to do because you don’t need the top-tier gear for it, a mayhem 10 tediore pistol will eat enemies for breakfast at mayhem 0.

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I’m always going to dislike any modifiers that punish certain play styles.

Reduced crit damage is punishing people for aiming well in a shooter.

Reduced elemental or elemental immunities punishes element matching in a game build around it.

Increasing recoil/decreasing handling ruins the actually great gunplay in this game.

No ffyl is just cheap.

11 Likes

What I would like, is a way to consistently increase difficulty by increasing enemy health, armor, shields and etc. like Mayhem, does, but without modifiers. Just playing the game straight up with a higher difficulty.

Your idea of Mayhem 1-5 is good. 1-10 can work depending on how much enemy stats increases each level. No need for special Mayhem level weapons. What the goal should be, is you need the best possible gear/build and be good at the game, to have success at the higher levels. The higher you go up, the better gear/build you will likely need.

I don’t like playing the game with the modifiers. Not because of the challenge, but because I like playing normal Borderlands. I don’t want giant heads, and lasers and lava pools and all that ridiculous ■■■■ everywhere, just to have a better challenge than TVHM

3 Likes

Edited for modifiers on/off toggle.

2 Likes

That would be great. I could put up with higher Mayhem levels having better gear drops, to help push you to even higher levels of Mayhem (though I’m not a fan of THAT much farming), if I at least had this option

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Why even bother making these RNG and have to “ReRoll” them other than to waste players time rerolling until we get what we want. Just let us choose… It’s basically what we are doing anyway, just more direct.

5 Likes

If they give us the option NOT to choose them, I’ll be the HAPPIEST player that ever lived.

EDIT: It sounded clearer in the former thread :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: I mean, let us choose the modifiers we want and give us the ability to turn them off at the same time.

A malus can be applied for switching them off (in terms of loot drop rate, cash, eridium).

1 Like

Now that Gearbox announced they will be fixing many of the more pressing issues regarding Mayhem 2.0, I think we should go back to discuss the modifiers.

After all, I didn’t see any particular attention toward them in the Fine-tuning article.

2 Likes

I think alot of the issues with the current modifiers have been smokescreened with everything else.
I’m sure gearbox see’s the numbers in people no longer playing. Once the other issues are fixed this is gonna gain more attention.

Mayhem 4 was created because of people being annoyed with modifiers. In mayhem 2.0 these modifiers are much more intrusive on gameplay. They are gonna have to do something.
I know others that feel this way however aren’t on forums.

3 Likes

I hope so.

Frankly, I’ve been discussing this issue since Mayhem2.0 kicked off and I’m getting a little tired :sweat_smile: expecially after seeing this problem wasn’t brought up in the new hotfix announcement.

2 Likes

@HyperionAT

My Girlfriend and I were able to jump into mayhem 10 fairly quickly as well as friends and members of my group since we could already farm at that level, things just took longer. Now on this level of play modifiers become more noticeable with “don’t use this build don’t use this element how dare you make a crit build” , the list goes on.

My point being people are gonna catch up and start noticing things, however not fast enough. Till then the best we can do is keep our voices heard. Gearbox might assume that the lost playerbase was people that weren’t coming back in the first place due to the problems in other areas that just got fed up or other reasons. I’m sure there is alot more people that feel the same way. Most of my steam list in fact.

Also I feel your frustration as well trying to explain the same things over and over again regarding the games mechanics which I feel are common sense to me and others I know and how modifiers are impacting them. It’s exhausting.

Keep Posting, Keep your chin up.

2 Likes

Thanks for the encouragement! Do modifiers pair up well with new storyline and gun testing?

1 Like

Yes vote without even reading because anything would be better than what it is now.

3 Likes

Yes, but now the high level players are punished if they join lower leveled players by the fact that going from higher to a lower Mayhem makes all drops worse by [Mayhem difference] levels. Seriously, going from M10 to M3 is the same as dropping 7 levels as far as gear is concerned(M3 weapons also do about 50% the damage of M10…). Ironically, Gearbox wants to git rid of roadblocks preventing players from playing together, yet they introduced one and seem intent on keeping it.

You can switch around your set up to be less synergized so that other players have a chance at killing things, but no one in their right minds will be happy that nothing that drops is worth looking at for them.

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BL3 Mayhem mode is rapidly turning the entire game experience in a cheap carnaval ride like all the other mainstream online MP games. Instead of improved AI skill or use of their weapons, mayhem 2 just adds a bunch of predictable factors and annoying obstacles a player can choose from, on top of the increased damage reduction.

Mayhem mode 1 was better, could have had better difficulty scaling. Mayhem 2 just makes me sad, feels like BL3 is selling it’s soul for the sake of announcing new gameplay in order to attract more people.

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I really hope this is not true. But yeah, the fact that they didn’t address the modifier issue properly would make sense with such a goal in mind.

It wouldn’t be a good news for us. It means we can pack our stuff and go.

But if that’s truly their aim (which I’m still hoping it isn’t), I hope they’ll fail miserably.

EDIT: I know it sounds harsh, but I’ve been a loyal customer for Gearbox. I’ve bought and played every single chapter of the Borderlands series and I’ve recommended these games to others. Being shaken off from the playerbase would feel like a betrayal.